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arizons
@joy I just thought of something else I read. Like I am sure everyone on here as done, I researched everything I could online about affairs and I had found this one article a ride on the phycology on the OW. Often if the AP believes the lies of the WS, they see themselves as the main person in the life of the WS and begin to feel that the husband or wife is the intruder....weird I know...seeing as we were first and we are the one married to them....but it apparently happens more often then you would think....and when the husband stays with their spouse and continue intimate relationships...the AP even feel as they are the ones being cheated on. I don't claim to understand how or why someone would begin to see such a warped reality...but it happends... I hoestly feel this was the cause with my husbands ex-AP
Female BS, D-day 1/03/2017, 
I'm going to rebuild me like a remix,

and raise my soul like a Phoenix 
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anthropoidape
arizons wrote:
@joy I just thought of something else I read. Like I am sure everyone on here as done, I researched everything I could online about affairs and I had found this one article a ride on the phycology on the OW. Often if the AP believes the lies of the WS, they see themselves as the main person in the life of the WS and begin to feel that the husband or wife is the intruder....weird I know...seeing as we were first and we are the one married to them....but it apparently happens more often then you would think....and when the husband stays with their spouse and continue intimate relationships...the AP even feel as they are the ones being cheated on. I don't claim to understand how or why someone would begin to see such a warped reality...but it happends... I hoestly feel this was the cause with my husbands ex-AP


I think that is often the case and I suspect many APs are just as much victims of the WS as we are. Clesrly not always. But I don't have trouble believing that at least some OWs (maybe I am sexist but I suspect it mostly happens to women) have been led into a position where they are virtually a second BS. That is why I am reluctant to assume by default that they are whores and liars and all the rest. A WS is by definition a liar, and a good one at that,  so it is clearly possible they lied to their AP. 
Maybe it is okay, maybe it will be okay.

BS, d-day Feb 2017, 16 mth affair.
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Ginger
The only way I could see that to be true is if the other person was single, completely misled, and did not know the other person was married.  I'm sure that happens.  But married themselves? Knowing the other person is married?  They are not victims, they are the perpetrators as much as the other offending spouse. They sign up for whatever  grief they experience.   
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anthropoidape
Well, we all, in a sense, sign up for whatever grief we experience. I think there is such a thing as a naive AP. One of the things I have noticed more generally is that narcissists are good at identifying and targeting people they will be able to manipulate. So if (say) you have married a deceitful, narcissistic cheater, chances are he will be good at finding an affair partner who he can dupe just as well as he is duping you. Sure that person is at fault. However they also have the misfortune of being vulnerable to his form of manipulation and if they had never met and been targeted by him they might have led a blameless life. 

Clearly this is not every case. I believe it could happen though.

Of course then that AP has their own journey to realising, to their shame, that they did something very wrong and harmful because thwy were so easily led.
Maybe it is okay, maybe it will be okay.

BS, d-day Feb 2017, 16 mth affair.
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Keepabuzz
Ginger wrote:
The only way I could see that to be true is if the other person was single, completely misled, and did not know the other person was married.  I'm sure that happens.  But married themselves? Knowing the other person is married?  They are not victims, they are the perpetrators as much as the other offending spouse. They sign up for whatever  grief they experience.   


I agree 100% with this. 
Male BS, D-day July 2015, trying to stay out of the dark.....
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arizons
Ginger wrote:
The only way I could see that to be true is if the other person was single, completely misled, and did not know the other person was married.  I'm sure that happens.  But married themselves? Knowing the other person is married?  They are not victims, they are the perpetrators as much as the other offending spouse. They sign up for whatever  grief they experience.   

I too 100% agree with this. When my Husband AP tried to claim she did nothing wrong, I told her if she had no knowledge he was married and my husband misled her and then she found out later he was married... I couldn't have been angery at someone for something they didn't know. However even if that the case, once the truth is known what the AP did after that is on them...one would hope they would leave the WS. I'm sure this scenario does happen.
   My my husbands AP was single BUT had full knowledge that my husband was married as she met my husband through his wife.
   However my husbands ex-ap. Has made it clear that she feels no wrong doing and is even proud of herself. It's just disgusting to me.
Female BS, D-day 1/03/2017, 
I'm going to rebuild me like a remix,

and raise my soul like a Phoenix 
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arizons
anthropoidape wrote:


I think that is often the case and I suspect many APs are just as much victims of the WS as we are. Clesrly not always. But I don't have trouble believing that at least some OWs (maybe I am sexist but I suspect it mostly happens to women) have been led into a position where they are virtually a second BS. That is why I am reluctant to assume by default that they are whores and liars and all the rest. A WS is by definition a liar, and a good one at that,  so it is clearly possible they lied to their AP. 

I agree, I am sure there are exceptions to the rules, but as woman we tend to be more emotional creatures in that sense. My husband ex-AP WHOLE HEARTLY believed that he was leaving me for her, mainly due to the horrid lies my Husband was saying about me. I think that what hurts the most for me in the betrayal. I can get over the fact that they had sex...what hurts more then that is just the laying, sneaking around, and the lies he would tell her that kept the affair going. He told her at one point that I was gay and sleeping with woman (Totally untrue), He told the AP that I never bathed or book showers and smelled like piss and $**t (Which she also believed...but I had to laugh because I don't think I would hold down my office job even for one day if that were true.) He told her that we never had sex anymore but just coexisted in the same house. (again not true...we were still very much active the WHOLE time the affair was going on.).
   Unfortunately, instead of her being mad at my husband for all the lies...she lashed out at me instead...as if its my fault he lied. But I can't feel sorry for her, any pain she is going through she brought on herself by knowingly sleeping with a married man...so in a since...she inflicted the pain on herself.
Female BS, D-day 1/03/2017, 
I'm going to rebuild me like a remix,

and raise my soul like a Phoenix 
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Guiltguilt
Ginger wrote:
The only way I could see that to be true is if the other person was single, completely misled, and did not know the other person was married.  I'm sure that happens.  But married themselves? Knowing the other person is married?  They are not victims, they are the perpetrators as much as the other offending spouse. They sign up for whatever  grief they experience.   


This is why I have no feelings of sorrow for my AP. Both of us engaged in an illegitimate relationship. It’s the BSs and the families I’m sorry towards. 
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Joy
Personally I don’t think that either one was duped.  They both went into it eyes wide open knowing full well that the other was married.  I first met the OW when she came to my home looking for us to hire her for advertising design.  She saw my husband and I together and saw our affection for one another. We also went on double dates with her and her husband (nice touch!) and she tagged along when we had working jobs.  In all of these instances she saw us holding hands, kissing.  There was no duping in this case.  It was her behavior that tipped me off, because she was so possessive of him.  
Do I believe that some AP’s are duped. Yes.  Is it the majority.  Nope, not at all.
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arizons
exactly, they can only be duped if they dont know they are married and the WS hides the fact that they are married.
Female BS, D-day 1/03/2017, 
I'm going to rebuild me like a remix,

and raise my soul like a Phoenix 
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Experiencethedevine29
The only way I could see that to be true is if the other person was single, completely misled, and did not know the other person was married.  I'm sure that happens.  But married themselves? Knowing the other person is married?  They are not victims, they are the perpetrators as much as the other offending spouse. They sign up for whatever  grief they experience.   
[/

i like your style Ginger!👍
Expectation is the root of all heartache.. ’Will Shakespeare
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arizons
Experiencethedevine29 wrote:
 

Right. I even told the ex-ap that at one point. If she had truly been someone who was misled and didn't know he was married...how could I even be mad at her? But the simple fact that she knew 100% a shadow of a doubt that he was...because she met me first, knew both of us and lived under our roof for a time....she absolutely is to blame.
Female BS, D-day 1/03/2017, 
I'm going to rebuild me like a remix,

and raise my soul like a Phoenix 
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Experiencethedevine29
arizons wrote:

Right. I even told the ex-ap that at one point. If she had truly been someone who was misled and didn't know he was married...how could I even be mad at her? But the simple fact that she knew 100% a shadow of a doubt that he was...because she met me first, knew both of us and lived under our roof for a time....she absolutely is to blame.


That’s just seriously effed up bollo**s that is. Vile....in your home??  No excuses for outright treachery on that level a.

ETD🌻
Expectation is the root of all heartache.. ’Will Shakespeare
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arizons
Experiencethedevine29 wrote:


That’s just seriously effed up bollo**s that is. Vile....in your home??  No excuses for outright treachery on that level a.

ETD🌻

Yep, she is a big ugly piece of Whore Dung
Female BS, D-day 1/03/2017, 
I'm going to rebuild me like a remix,

and raise my soul like a Phoenix 
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BrokenHearted
Joy wrote:
Personally I don’t think that either one was duped.  They both went into it eyes wide open knowing full well that the other was married.  I first met the OW when she came to my home looking for us to hire her for advertising design.  She saw my husband and I together and saw our affection for one another. We also went on double dates with her and her husband (nice touch!) and she tagged along when we had working jobs.  In all of these instances she saw us holding hands, kissing.  There was no duping in this case.  It was her behavior that tipped me off, because she was so possessive of him.  
Do I believe that some AP’s are duped. Yes.  Is it the majority.  Nope, not at all.


In my case,  the OW was a mutual friend of ours for 15 yrs. She knew we were married, and happily. I had been warmed ny others to eatch my husband around her because she was a notorious homewrecker. She had seduced other friend's husband's (I'm guessing yo break up marriages) then once the man left his wife for her, she'd drop them like a hot potato. 

She set her sights on my husband and waited for 15 years, until he sunk into a personal H ell due to some horrible life events. He was down on himself and extremely vulnerable. She "consoled" him.  Things between my husband and I were strained, ( he lost his job of 28 years, we lost our house, and my mother all within 3 months).  I was dealing with the kids and trying not to be homeless. He sank into a deep depression. We stopped being intimate and he began to drink heavily.

He was angry and asked me for some space (emotioslly) which I have him. Then he took that space ad my not caring, began his emotional affair (which turned physical nut not sexual (Or so he claims) and continued to drive me away.

He "came to his senses" when i discovered THE affair, and "realized" just how much I did care by my response.

I could care less about his AP or how she feels. She never cared about him, just wrecking our marriage. Now we are trying to recover and she still works with him. I'm sure she will wait another 15 years to get another shot. But my husband says he won't fall for that again . That's what my biggest fear is.
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