R2C
Just a question to the community as a whole, both BS & WS input is appreciated.
What is No Contact exactly? Is it simply no phone calls, texts or planned in person meetings? Or is it more? Does it include still looking the AP's social media, "accidently" or purposefully running into that person, asking common friends about that person still, driving by the AP's house and or workplace.
I ask because as the BS I feel it is all of the above. I have heard about the affair fog once an affair has ended. So I can kind of expect (if I view things from the WS's point of view) during that time. But once the fog has lifted, I think those behaviors should stop if the WS is really committed to the marriage. Am I wrong?
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Tim2014
No contact means nothing no checking up Sking Bout talking to social media it's means nothing cut off cold turkey its a wS detoxing period and that can't begin until everything stops nAda zero zippo! To remain in your relationship they need to focus on themselves and what wrong with them own up and ask for forgiveness and hope and pray they get a second chance with you question is do they deserve it or not sorry just putting it out there like it is
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surviving
R2C - I agree with Tim.  The affair fog doesn't usually end until there is no contact.  No contact means no contact.  No emails, texts, pictures, gifts given (they need to be out of the house), no phone calls, no social media, nothing, and I mean NOTHING!  When no contact is practiced, then the fog will lift.  When the fog lifts, then discussions will be better and more honest.  Sometimes no contact includes getting another job.  We not only got another job (because he was caught and fired at his work), we moved to another state.  Not everyone can do that, but changing jobs might be what needs to happen to follow the no contact boundary.
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Anna26
R2C wrote:
Just a question to the community as a whole, both BS & WS input is appreciated. What is No Contact exactly? Is it simply no phone calls, texts or planned in person meetings? Or is it more? Does it include still looking the AP's social media, "accidently" or purposefully running into that person, asking common friends about that person still, driving by the AP's house and or workplace. I ask because as the BS I feel it is all of the above. I have heard about the affair fog once an affair has ended. So I can kind of expect (if I view things from the WS's point of view) during that time. But once the fog has lifted, I think those behaviors should stop if the WS is really committed to the marriage. Am I wrong?



Think you have it about right here R2C, it's all this and more, for example, my husband works in the same place as his AP and to me he should be avoiding all contact with her there too but that's easier said than done as sometimes he has to work with her.  But to me, if he does have to do this he should be doing nothing more than saying good morning or whatever, and not chatting about things in general and asking how she is.  But, we are not even at this point yet, it's about as clear as mud to him.

I think it has to dawn on them  just WHY there has to be no contact, it's obvious to us as a BS, but until they realise, they go on justifying to themselves why it's okay to still have contact! 
I don't know if the BS laying down the law and insisting on NC works because you can't really control what someone else does.  In my husbands case it is always better to plant a seed and water it and watch it grow, but at the moment it is still too foggy out there to do much in the way of planting anything, let alone harvesting the produce...
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Tim2014
Exactly because having contact of any kind keeps the brain firing the chemicals that make them feel good rewrite history and justify what they are doing! Meanwhile you the obstacle to what they want boy when detox starts look out its like a alcoholic going through the deetees as they call it withdrawal is painful but their lack of boundaries is what got them there in the first place ! The more you read here at some point the bs have been made to be a villain in their mind
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Kalmarjan


Well, as a WS, I can totally answer this question.

No contact means, no contact.

No social media, no twitter, instagram, snapchat, facebook. No chance to see any pictures, or to follow up on what they are doing. In fact, BLOCK them so they cannot see anything you can do.

You don't need to know anything. That means, no friends, no checking up to "see" how they are doing. Who cares, anyway. If you were not friends with your AP's friends before all this nonsense, GET RID OF THEM. BLOCK them too, so they can't keep your AP on tabs with what you are doing.

You've blocked their number, so they cannot call or text you. You've told them that you are no longer interested in them, and whatever happened in the past will stay there. They were the biggest, stupidest mistake you EVER made as a human being. Period.

In essence, think on it this way...

Your AP is now like the grocery clerk at the store who is bagging your groceries. You don't really know anything about them, and that's about it. When you leave the store, chances are very good that you don't have a second thought about them.

If, Gods above forbid, you ever meet up with them by accident, they are to be treated EXACTLY like that grocery store clerk. Maybe a smile, a nod. Good day. THAT'S IT.

Your marriage is at stake. You could say your life is at stake.

The fantasy is over. IF you think that you can handle it, YOU CAN'T.

I didn't completely come out of the fog until I went truly NO CONTACT. I didn't start healing until I got real with myself and admitted that lying to myself was doing me more harm than good.

I hope I helped out a bit with my thoughts.

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TimT
R2C wrote:
What is No Contact exactly?

One sure indication of this single-mindedness will be your spouse’s agreement to have no further interaction with the affair partner. If any contact remains between them, even if it is due to career expectations or long-established social interactions, you will likely experience ongoing stress. I have never seen an exception to this. That is why nearly every affair recovery specialist suggests a swift and complete cutoff of all contact with the affair partner.

In the book, Surviving an Affair, Willard Harley states it this way:
"...there is no good reason for the unfaithful spouse to ever see or talk to the former lover. There should be absolutely no contact. In spite of career sacrifices, friendships, and issues related to children’s schooling, I recommend with all seriousness that there be a sudden and complete end to an affair. And I recommend extreme measures to ensure total separation for life from a former lover."

In Torn Asunder, David Carder writes:
"...the partners separate physically—move to different locations, change jobs, and so on… If such a decisive break is not made, the recovering [unfaithful partner] will be tempted to renew contact… Continually ‘running into’ the partner damages the trust and refuels the anger of the spouse who is trying to forgive and rebuild."

In Not “Just Friends”, Shirley Glass writes:
“If the contact continues, the threat continues, the threat continues. It’s like a recovering alcoholic who continues to go to happy hour after work every Friday, or an Internet infidel who continues to use the computer at home in the evenings.”

An unfaithful partner who resists going to extraordinary measures to break all contact may be guilty of either wanting opportunities to encounter the former lover (even if they try to convince themselves they won’t cross “the line” again) or of failing to have empathy for the betrayed partner’s suffering. Either reason creates a barrier to recovery.

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R2C
Thank you all for your input.
TimT- I also appreciate your guidance as a professional and just want to clarify. No Contact means EVERYTHING including things the WS might be doing when no one else is looking, correct? Those extra items I typed above would be classified as "contact" in your eyes and a roadblock to recovery?
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TimT
R2C wrote:
Thank you all for your input. TimT- I also appreciate your guidance as a professional and just want to clarify. No Contact means EVERYTHING including things the WS might be doing when no one else is looking, correct? Those extra items I typed above would be classified as "contact" in your eyes and a roadblock to recovery?

Well, those are certainly "borderline" behaviors, not technically contact but right on the edge of it. My concern is less about whether he's following the designated rules/expectation and more about what his actions reflect regarding his intent. Whether or not he has any lingering feelings for the OW, the only appropriate response for a wayward spouse who is committed to repairing their marriage is to discontinue all behaviors directed toward the affair partner. And it should be HIS desire to do so. If you are needing to convince him or define every specific rule he's expected to follow, then you are assuming too much responsibility.

You already know what you need. You know what makes you feel safe and what does not. You can be honest with him about that, but if he is unwilling to do those things then you should establish strong boundaries. As long as he is doing those things, you are at risk.
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R2C
Thank you both TimT and Intuition77. Just to clarify TimT my wife is the WS.
Intuition: sorry you are divorcing. I want my marriage to work but as I said in my 1st ever post if this is the best it will ever be, and I am always questioning true feelings and actions, I do not want to live like that. I deserve so much more! We all do. I thought the affair fog was gone with her, perhaps not. All of know is I am questioning everything now internally. I don't even ask anymore as I really will not believe the answers. I think I am being told what I want to hear.
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Robin1971
R2C, I am with you on not asking anymore, because if I do ask, I know I don't believe anything. I do not think my WS has had any contact up until now, like ongoing, but I do question if the AP has TRIED to contact him. I have asked before and when I was told no, I dug and dug trying to prove him wrong, because no matter what he said I don't believe him. It's just going on 7 months for me, but I have basically given up the hope for the day that I will automatically feel better, my philosophy is that WE, the BS have to just give in, I don't think anyone on here agrees with me, and that's OK but in my mind there is no other way around it for me to go on. No logical way. In my mind yes it is a pass. No I don't get the whole " fog" theory. My WS stopped all contact immediately ( from what I believe) , was a little easier because he chose to have another life outside of this country ( one reason I have been able to work on our marriage, not sure I could if it happened here in states or in my own backyard)
So I just need to learn to deal with what has happened and work toward moving forward and it sucks. I am hoping my marriage will someday be better, and the only way it can be is for me to basically forget the past and what once was my life and start fresh. That is how I am choosing to deal with this horrible situation that was thrown at our family, I see no other way around it. So my " better" will be what I / we make of it now. Sure he is tryng to prove to me that he is worth it and that he is sorry, but I have to tell you I think it makes it worse some days. It's so hard to explain. I would rather just be done with therapy. It takes me days to recover from the " low" I feel when I leave there. Do we as BS deserve more? Absolutely! And I look at this now as if I want my marriage to work, I need to fall in love with this person , this new person, because the person I thought I knew for 22 yrs is no longer, so this new person needs to prove to me that they are worth it, that they can make me feel safe and happy and secure and make me trust them. But I don't want to keep remember what they did to me. I am probably going about this all the wrong way, and I am sure this will come back to bite me, but this week, these are my thoughts and this is what my WS has brought my life to. Just to erase everything I knew. Sad, very sad, I just don't see any other way.
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R2C
Robin1971. I understand you 100% but I am not at the place (yet) to give in with that thinking you have. I kind of wish I could. I was fooled once by her. No WS in their right mind will say " Yes I did try to get a glimpse today of what my AP is doing and how his life is, but don't worry I'm over him". My WS may be doing more now for me and us but what is the true reason; "Till death do us part" or "Till I can find another I'll make the best of a bad situation".
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Kalmarjan
If your WS is honest with you they will tell you. I did, and by being honest, it actually helped me to connect with my wife easier.

I know you all are walking on eggshells. The worst part of this is not knowing what is going to happen. Ultimately you only have control over your own actions. Your decisions. How you react to what your WS does is your choice.

I believe If your WS is being honest, then they will tell you when and if they contact the AP, for whatever reason.
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R2C
Kalmarjan - I know my No Contact topic has morphed into trust but that's the key! IF they are being honest. That is what I do not know for certain in my case. Is it honesty, is it a lie, is it being told what I want to hear? That's what I think all BS's question during recovery. If yours does not then I commend you for not giving her a reason to doubt your words and actions as you try to reconcile, I am not as lucky.
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