E04355 Show full post »
E04355
things were really going well, or so i thought. we had been making some real progress. but now i found out that she is still talking to her AP, even offering to help him with his job resume. the problem is that, she doesnt know that i know, i found out through "other means" ie, she never changed her passwords after we split. what the heck do i do? if i approach her on what i know, then she will know that i have been spying. if i dont tell her, then........uugghh......this is soo frustrating. 
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TimT
E04355 wrote:
things were really going well, or so i thought. we had been making some real progress. but now i found out that she is still talking to her AP, even offering to help him with his job resume. the problem is that, she doesnt know that i know, i found out through "other means" ie, she never changed her passwords after we split. what the heck do i do? if i approach her on what i know, then she will know that i have been spying. if i dont tell her, then........uugghh......this is soo frustrating. 

When someone has betrayed another in a marriage/relationship, it is unreasonable to expect that the betrayed partner be able to just start trusting them again. I don't get bothered when I hear that a betrayed partner "checked" whether or not something was going on. SHE IS STILL LYING TO YOU. THAT should be the focus, not that you had to sneak around to find out the truth.

Be less concerned about her reactions and focus on how you can establish boundaries in your relationship. You are not safe with her.
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E04355
I played dumb last night and asked her if it's over with him. And she came clean. Apologized etc. But I don't feel like I trust her. I am certain this will happen again and again. I am on high alert now. In her mind it's no big deal to talk to him now and then. In my mind there should be zero contact for the rest of her life. Zero. None. This is going to be a sticking point.
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E04355
I finished the book and it gave some good info. But the main reason I am posting is due to the events that happened last night.

We spent most of the weekend together and her attitude was strange. And she would be secretly texting all the time and acted very shady about it. We were at a party together and someone else even commented about it to me. It brought me right back to January when the same exact stufff was going on when she started the affair. The shady attitude and going off to a corner of the room to text. So I gave it until Monday afternoon and I couldn't take it anymore. So I point blank asked her if they were still talking. And she said no. So I did something I've never done before, I sent him a message and asked him when was the last time that they had talked. He never responded. But she came to pick up our kids from my apartment and she was visibly upset and wanted to talk to me immediately. We went to the kitchen and wipped out her phone and showed me the message the he sent to her asking her what should he do or say to me. She once again came clean and cried said sorry for lies and hurting me. But that talking to him is like a drug to her and that she still loves him. I messaged him and told him to butt out of our lives. And I put the ball in her court and gave her the him or me speech. She left in tears.

At 9 pm she called and we talked until midnight. She apologized a 100 times, and I forgave her 100 times. She explained her feelings and I explained mine. We talked like we have never talked before. I said that this could be a good ground zero starting point if she wants to be in this for real. That we can go forward and put this all in the past.

Now I just don't know where to go from here. Is it too soon? To go on together? We have a marriage counselor appt. Next Monday. I am more than willing to forgive and forget. I am also willing to back off for a month. Do I contact this guy again and tell him how I really feel? To i call a meeting with the 3 of us? Do I let her take care of it on her own? Do I walk away and say screw this whole mess? Or do I just keep doing what I've been which is wait and hang out here and there with her and hope it all settles out in time?
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Kalmarjan
Wow... That's a lot to take in...

First things first. Did she express that she was going no contact with him? Did she say the words, or did you take care of it for her? There's a big difference there.

It is like a drug, and the only way out is to go no contact, and work through the feelings.

Second, marriage counselling... I have to warn you. It won't "fix" anything, it will give you the tools to see if you move forward in your marriage. Tools like how to communicate, how to take responsibility. The thing is, both of you will need to work hard for it to work. Which means both of you will have to want to work hard for it to work.

I know that you have a hankering to swoop in and fix all this. It's probably in your nature. It would be in mine. But, this isn't your problem to fix.

Sure, you are married and in it together, but for issues like infidelity and integrity, she has to do the work, soul searching, climbing out of the fog, you cannot do that for her. Otherwise, you are putting a bandage over a gaping wound in your marriage.

Look at it this way. I'll never cheat on my wife again. Not because I'm scared to. Not because don't want to. Because I am a man with integrity, and I can't do what I did to my wife and still look at myself in the mirror and say that I am doing the right thing.

Unfortunately, I didn't have that integrity before, and I learned it at the cost of almost losing my marriage. Unfortunately, your wife also has a lack of integrity, she cheated. She can say a lot of words, but they don't mean squat if she isn't backing them up with her actions.
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E04355
We didn't specifically address a no contact rule yet. We both agreed that we have deamons to slay. I want her to take the step of saying no contact, but its not out of my comfort zone to suggest it. The point is, its her job to take the necessary steps to end this. And I can demand all day until Im blue in the face. But she has to want this to work. And until then. I'm stuck. She is a good talker, but not good at following through. Every time we seem to build trust, one of us screws it up. My temper or her lies. I've found an outlet for my anger. ( I started jiu jitsu) and it really does the trick. She needs to get out of the fog and get invested in us again.
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Kalmarjan
It's her job to take the steps, but it is YOUR job to establish your boundaries clearly, not just imply them. If YOU are not okay with her continuing to see this man on the side, and "work" on your marriage, then you can tell her that you are not conformable with that, and it's not acceptable for you.

There's nothing demanding about that, it's just being clear and honest. If it ain't gonna work, let her know.

Worst case scenario, she leaves, right? But, at least you were up front with your expectations, and you control how you react to the situation.

I think it's great you've took up martial arts to have an outlet. That's great, and very productive.

One thing to think on, what is the cause of your anger? Is it because you are not getting the outcome you expect? Again, not to harp on it, but CLEAR boundaries are the way to go here. YOU get a say on how things proceed, and you DON'T have to wait on her to become honest. In fact, I'd advise against it.

Work on you. This is the only thing you can control in this situation. Of she chooses another path, that's up to her. But by trying to goad her into it, or expecting her to conform to something you are not clear on is a form of a covert contract, and will serve to Piss you off further when it doesn't go the way you expect.

Communicate, communicate, communicate. Leave NO stone unturned.
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E04355
We finally had the talk, and we agreed that a casual friendship between them is not an option any longer. She actually said that she is mad at herself for letting it happen and feels dumb for contacting him last week. She really seems onboard for making our marriage work and has said those words exactly.

But I'm not naive, I know that there will more back and forth between us. I just really hope that one of these times it sticks. And I also hope that it is sooner than later. She said the other night, that when we are moving in a positive direction, the feeling are getting stronger each time, and when we move in a negative direction, those feelings are getting less.
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E04355
Things have been good slash flat. She pulled the we are standing under some mistletoe thing during Christmas and we kissed. But it was flat. Dead flat. We tried going out tonight, but we got into a fight. She admitted that she is only doing this out of guilt and a small glint of hope. This pretty well sucks. I don't know wether to pull out, or keep trying. I'm getting tired of getting my hopes up, and then getting them crushed over and over. When we r good it feels good, but when we r bad, she pulls the we should just get divorced crap. Will she ever convert. Or am I just waisting my time? Back to my original post. What do I do ?
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TimT
E04355 wrote:
Things have been good slash flat. She pulled the we are standing under some mistletoe thing during Christmas and we kissed. But it was flat. Dead flat. We tried going out tonight, but we got into a fight. She admitted that she is only doing this out of guilt and a small glint of hope. This pretty well sucks. I don't know whether to pull out, or keep trying. I'm getting tired of getting my hopes up, and then getting them crushed over and over. When we r good it feels good, but when we r bad, she pulls the we should just get divorced crap. Will she ever convert. Or am I just wasting my time? Back to my original post. What do I do?
If we had time to work together, I would want to help you clarify your vision for who you are and who you are becoming. The way you love your wife now (or choose not to be with her anymore) should come from a conviction of the kind of man you are and how that man loves others and himself. That man recognizes the lack of connection from a spouse, but doesn't get caught up in the back-and-forth reactions from her. He can be more steady because his drive to love her or to separate from her are consistent with his own sense of value/worth.

That probably sounds vague and psycho-babbly, but I believe it is a profound truth. The choice to stay or leave a marriage has a lot more to do with the heart of the betrayed partner than we often give credit for. I've seen people stay and leave marriages for poor reasons...out of fear or weakness; I've seen them stay and leave out of strength, too.

If you tap into that, you can recognize the forced connection from your wife and love her anyway -- for a while, at least. As she recognizes that you love her but do not "need" her, you may find that her responses to you begin to shift. And if they do not, you will eventually come to a time when you are no longer willing to wait for her heart to change. Even then, you will be able to move on with much more confidence.
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E04355
We have had several good weeks in a row now and we both have said that it feels different this time around. Like its actually sticking. Her ap has moved on to his next victim. He was spotted with a new woman last week and that seems to have closed a gap with her. Everything is still moving at a snales pace between us. She is still afraid to be intimate with me, but we r making small steps of progress. We r still physically separated. I just want this to be over, and to have my wife back fully. Ugh...
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TimT
That's good news! Make sure you keep your focus on wanting YOU to be healthy. In a way, that needs to be more important than getting your marriage/wife back. The healthier you are, the more confident you are in who you are becoming (with or without your wife), the better partner you will be and the more attractive you will be to her. I hope things continue to move forward for you both.
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SmallPaws44
I can honestly say that backing away from your WS helps. I did it without reading Tim's information (but have done now). I decided that he needed the space to decide what he wanted and that I couldn't be subject to his vacillation. I made a decision to let him go, told him that, meant every single word, and picked myself up and got on with life (even though it was really difficult to do that).

It wasn't long until he was coming back to me and honestly wanting to repair our marriage. However, the difference with my husband's affair was that it was purely sexual, extremely short-lived, he told me about it (I didn't discover it-didn't even have a clue), and he struggled with reconnection, too. He still does because I think there is still guilt eating away at him. But, we are working through it and you can work through it, too. Just take it one day at a time. One moment at a time. And, as Tim said, focus on a healthy you. That way, no matter what happens, you will be okay. Best wishes to you!
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