I didn't find this site until a few weeks ago and wish I had found it 7-10 years ago instead of the one that I did!  So, sorry for the length, but I need to catch you up on the roller coaster ride of the past 10 years with the scary clown (AP) at the controls...

Quick history. We've been married for 35 years. We have 2 adult children - ages 24 and 28. I am the BW.  My WH was contacted by his high school girlfriend via social media back in 2009.  Their emotional affair was off and running within a couple of emails as they rekindled those teenage hormones.  I was unaware of it - other than he was suddenly working some very late nights - until he confessed he was in contact with her when he wanted to meet up with her and her on a business trip.  I didn't see the harm at the time of this reconnection, but when he was gone I was suddenly filled with dread of what was going on and when he returned I wasn't sure where the sweet man I had married had gone and now was replaced with this person who didn't seem to care about me or us at all...  5 months later I was in contact with the AP's husband and he provided the emails (hubby had only used his work computer so no trail for me to see) and photos of the cards/letters/gifts for me to understand why I was not sleeping, depressed and a good 15 pounds lighter than just a couple months prior.  (Yes, I didn't mind the weight loss, but it's an awful way to go about it!). 

I presented the "evidence" of 5 months of email that equated to 3 reams of paper to him and asked him to stop all contact with the AP.  He was angry initially, but within days agreed, and did from his end, but she wouldn't let go.  Even after he said he was not ever going to respond, she did a weekly "missive" to him that he forwarded to me.  I think I felt sorry for her at that point because she was so desperate for his attention.  I had met her (gag!) the month before and honestly could not see at all what my husband could see in this woman...  At some point in there my husband switched jobs and the contact ended.  Or so I thought.

3 years later I was feeling those uneasy feelings that they might be in contact again.  A couple months into these nagging feelings, I questioned him about a charge for "parking" on his hotel receipt for a trip he had just returned from.  He didn't rent a car...  He confessed that the OW and him had been in contact and she had met him at the hotel and they had sex.  He seemed relieved that I found out and immediately was interested in doing whatever necessary to end the affair and rebuild our marriage.  He wrote a no contact letter in his own handwriting within days and I mailed it to her.  She responded with a snarky email and we blocked her on his email account at work.  We focused immediately at that point on trying to meet each other's needs and although we "discussed" the affair at the time, I don't ever think I got the truth out of him at that point and based on the "program" we were following at the time for recovery, I wasn't supposed to bring up the affair again after I asked my initial questions and got answers.

A few years later I started getting those nagging feelings again.  At some point there was a trip that I was certain they could have met up on, but when I questioned it, he flatly denied it - I was just over-reacting and his attachment to me and our marriage seemed to ebb and flow.  Every few months I became keenly aware of those feelings again and questioned him and was denied any evidence again and again. I snooped, but since this affair had gone deep underground, and he only contacted her via his work computer and used inprivate browsing, the trail of crumbs was sparse.

I felt like I was going completely crazy.  I lost interest in hobbies and things that used to bring me joy and I felt stuck and so depressed.  I read a post somewhere about gaslighting, bought a book about it on Amazon and realized I was definitely being gaslighted... I dug deeper on his computer and phone finding some things that to others might seem benign, but immediately triggered me into realizing the affair was going on and had been rekindled a while ago.  There was an odd Sunday afternoon and week that followed that didn't add up for me back in April and when questioned about where he was he got extremely defensive and without prompting slept in a different room. This just made me realize that it was time to get some hard evidence, so I hired a PI on his next business trip...

I got "smoking gun" evidence of the affair from that PI.  In addition, when he returned from his trip I found something he didn't delete on his phone and could question him about.  Digging deeper then on his computer I found a fake email account hidden... By the time I got what I thought I needed to get into that secret email account, he had deleted the account.  At this point he started cooperating with me and couldn't deny the affair and agreed to end contact with her and work on our marriage - again. If we were to survive this though, we needed a different approach - one that I could find healing with and decide if I could continue with my marriage for the right reasons.  I found a marriage counselor for us, started seeing my own therapist again and insisted he go to a therapist as well... I think we've had mixed results from all - but some things are helping us as a couple and individually.

Then a few weeks ago we found this site.  We've done the First Aid course and are both doing our Truth Talk course.  I feel confident that he isn't in contact with her right now - at least I think I do...  Or thought I did...  Before we started these courses I asked him to put a timeline together for me of the affair.  He did and I basically laughed at it.  It was all trickle truth - he wasn't telling me more than he had already told me - mostly things I had found out on my own or through the PI. (They only had sex 2 times - the 2 times I found out about??  Please, I'm not THAT stupid...)  Fast forward to diving into these courses and feeling like I was FINALLY going to get the answers I needed...

The 2nd day of the Truth Talk course he announces he is ready for the Truth Talk even though we are supposed to give it at least 4-5 days for preparation.  I state that I still have a lot of work to do and that we need to wait.  He kind of mentions in passing the timeline from before.  This triggers me BIG TIME that he is not ready for the truth talk.  Heck, I'm not ready for it because it covers some things that make me think HARD about the affair and what the ramifications will be if he continues his lies and deceptions...  

So, now that you have the history, here is my question...  Can they still be in the Affair Fog even though the affair is supposedly over?  Should I put off the Truth Talk until I think he really understands that he can't omit things that I need to know (for my own sanity - that those awful feelings and sleepless nights were indeed because I knew in my soul what was going on)?  Or should I just go ahead with the Truth Talk in a few days and let him deal with the consequences if he continues to lie/deceive?

I am just now finding some things on the site that I know will help me (The 180 Strategy), but looking for some guidance on others that may have wanted to have the truth talk desperately but suddenly wonder if it's too premature in the process due to remaining fog to get to the truth. 

Also - for those who are relying on their own feelings instead of hard evidence for knowing what is Truth - do you have any pointers?  Honestly, the only way I can think of to get hard evidence is to contact the AP and I don't think that is worthwhile since I'm certain that she has had her crosshairs on my husband for the past 10 years and now that she is free and clear from her 2nd divorce she is probably licking her chops thinking I will throw him out.
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The fog lasts a long time as they wrestle to make sense of it.  Long after the affair is over.  I guess it depends on other things too.  If this was a shallow relationship maybe it's easier but the length of it suggests there was emotional connection that won't be undone just because the affair has come to light.  Your husband will go through a grieving process that is very difficult to watch but has to happen for him to put her in his past.  I think if you are seeing those things in your husband, you may be right that it's a little premature for an in depth exploration.  From the story, you already seem to know the pertinent information: Who, how long, how it started, parameters both emotionally and sexually.  I'd be surprised if you got anything that would give you any new perspective right now.  If you are using Tim's resources, they are good guides.  I don't know the truth talk course specifically, but others like the BS guide and the couple's guide can help you to determine when the best time for the truth talk to be done.  There is a series of the Recovery Room podcasts that explains each stage and the important things to focus on in each. 
As for pointers when using your feelings, they are hard to rely on early when they are not yet settled.  That's why it's good to delay permanent decisions until the trauma and stress subside a little.  When you're ready to talk, you'll have ideas in your head about what is objectively true and there are things that won't add up or make sense.  That's hard.  When your gut tells you that 1+1=2 but your husband's answer is 3.  The reality is, you won't ever gain full knowledge of details.  You're perception and his perception will have filters.  Where your gut will be more reliable is in the subjective information.  When he tells you his perception of his experience, that's where you will be able to know more fully if he is being honest with you and himself.  When he tells you about how he was feeling about the circumstances in his life when he started the affair, what he was trying to soothe with the behaviour, what his thinking was and his rationalization for that value system at the time and now etc. When he shows you his true self, your gut will know.  He'll have to show you his imperfections.  That's something that is hard to do for people still stuck in the fog or still not taking responsibility for their actions.  The understanding why course is probably one that will help a lot when it comes to that.
I hope you'll find the strength you need to weather the storm in the initial stage.  You won't find it in your husband.  Find it in yourself first.  It looks like you are already on the right path in terms of looking for the resources that help you.  Independent counseling and resources are the most important thing now. 
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I would not initiate it until he is ready to be vulnerable and 100% honest.  That is really what matters at this point.  You will never have all the evidence, nor honesty do I think you want it.  My WS didn’t cover tracks well and I read all the glory.  I think I will likely always wonder if there is more.  My WS has completed the truth talk course as I have done mine.  We have not been able to have the talk.  In my boundaries for the talk I have asked for 100% honestly with ZERO defensiveness.  If they can’t commit to those two things, I am not willing to work on our marriage.  WS has not made it through me stating that without getting defensive, which means lies are about to spew out.  I haven’t considered separating but I have a “deadline” in my head.  Has he signed a No Contact Agreement with you?  Are you willing to put boundaries around that?  May be a starting place...hugs to you, welcome to the only place that feels safe to vent and check your thoughts. This sucks.
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In no way am I suggesting one path is better than another. But if you are up for this question - why do you want to stay with him after all that? You will never know the full truth, you will always know she had a stronger pull on him than you do, and you'll always wonder when it's going to happen again. 

I am not saying this to upset you. I mean that to stay despite all that you should have a really, really powerful reason and it would be critical for you to know exactly what your reasons are.

Affair fog (if it exists at all) is not, imho, something that lasts much longer than about 18 months. It is similar to any other honeymoon period in that sense. After that it's not affair fog, it's just two people having a relationship. This is a whole life he had out of your sight, all the arguments and ups and downs and ins and outs of any intimate relationship lasting that long, not just some mysterious thing happening in some hazy fog. I do not believe anyone is still in the "fog" ten years on. That's just a dishonest person living a double life with his eyes wide open and the sun shining down, no fog at all.
Formerly known as Anthropoidape... male bs, long affair, d-day Feb 2017.
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After all the gaslighting I endured during my wife’s affair, I will never trust her word over my gut again. I have told her as much. Also told her that it is up to her to ensure my gut never tells me she is doing something she shouldn’t because I won’t dig, I won’t investigate, I won’t ask. If my gut says something is going on, I will listen to it and leave. It has never been wrong. I just chose to listen to my wife’s lies instead, like a fool.  I will never be a fool again. 
Male BS, D-day July 2015, trying to stay out of the dark.....
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We went through so many f**king “truth talks” that I could just vomit thinking about it. He sat there and seemed to understand its importance. He had a counselor explain it to him as if I had cancer and he was holding the cure and keeping it from me. That seemed to stick with him. But never long enough for the whole truth to come out. Have the talk when you feel ready. And don’t settle for anything that sounds like 1+1=3.  YOU KNOW BETTER! Trust that gut that hasn’t lied to you yet, over the man that has. 

As for the fog, apparently my WH’s lasted longer than I thought. It wasn’t until the AP had answered questions from our lawyer (2 years after DDay) that my H told me he continued to talk to her and see her for a year after. He “wanted to make sure she was okay.” Translation, he wanted to keep the door open if I left him or stopped paying attention long enough for him to pick back up. 

I’m still with my compulsively lying WH. And it has begun to pay off. But what you are willing to put up with, versus anyone else on here or anywhere else, is ENTIRELY your decision. Not ours. Not his. Not your mothers. This is all you! And you’ve got this! I have no doubt that you will make the right decision for you in the long run. 

However, keep in mind, that this is a LONG RUN.  Not a sprint. The worst, most heinous, evil marathon ever! Stay with him or leave. Either way, you have a long battle ahead of you to heal yourself. To regain your sense of the ground under your feet. You can do this! Even when the day feels like it will never end and your sorrow is going to eat you alive, the next day will be better! Maybe only infinitesimally, but it will be better. Focus on that! We are here to hold you up along the way!
Wishing everyone here peace and healing!

Female BS Married 18 yrs
DDay 3/7/2017 through 4/2019 and counting. 
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anthro wrote:
In no way am I suggesting one path is better than another. But if you are up for this question - why do you want to stay with him after all that? You will never know the full truth, you will always know she had a stronger pull on him than you do, and you'll always wonder when it's going to happen again. 

I am not saying this to upset you. I mean that to stay despite all that you should have a really, really powerful reason and it would be critical for you to know exactly what your reasons are.

Affair fog (if it exists at all) is not, imho, something that lasts much longer than about 18 months. It is similar to any other honeymoon period in that sense. After that it's not affair fog, it's just two people having a relationship. This is a whole life he had out of your sight, all the arguments and ups and downs and ins and outs of any intimate relationship lasting that long, not just some mysterious thing happening in some hazy fog. I do not believe anyone is still in the "fog" ten years on. That's just a dishonest person living a double life with his eyes wide open and the sun shining down, no fog at all.

This is essentially what I was going to say, but couldn’t think of how to word it well enough. 
To give you a different perspective, I was the OW in an affair that lasted too long, and was broken off time and time again after the partner of the man I was seeing found out. And this affair only lasted a year, not even close to how long your husbands has. 
She to this day doesn’t know we continued to see each other for months after the initial discovery. 
I can tell you that the beginning was, I’m sure, fun for him. But he kept coming back after discovery not because of an affair fog, but because of something deeper. And I kept letting him back in for the same reason. 
It ultimately took me not wanting to continue to potentially hurt his partner for it to end, and for me to realize I deserved so much more than someone that was willingly hurting two people he claimed to love. 
I was the one who had to end it for good, and even then he still tries to contact me. 
I do wholeheartedly believe that there is a difference between a cheater that has a casual fling with someone for whatever reason (their own emotional damage, unresolved marital issues, depression, feeling like their partner is pulling away, etc...), and a cheater that develops a nearly full fledged relationship with someone else. The latter is more damaging to everyone involved, and much harder to let go of. 
My pull back from the affair I aided actually hurt his partner more in the short term, because she’s now having to watch him mourn the loss of me, it’s essentially like ending any other relationship. And I’m sure it’s a bit confusing right now because she doesn’t know we were continuing to see each other. Though in the long run, I know ending when I did was better (though not better than never doing it), because watching this years from now would have been painful if she assumed he wasn’t seeing me that whole time. 
With a relationship this long lasting, I’d say to trust you instincts more than anything else at this point, not what he spells out for you. And if you haven’t had to watch him mourn the end of that relationship yet, odds are it’s not over in his mind, even if it’s over physically for now. 
BS to an abusive H 2009-2018
OW 2018-2019
I wear many hats.
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I’m not a great believer in ‘affair fog’, I think that’s just a blanket for continued bad behaviour.

As anthro suggests, you might want to look at your reasons for staying since this has been ongoing for such a lengthy period. All of us here know how hard it is to stay rather than just s*itcan the whole thing, and we all have different reasons for staying if we do. Doesn’t matter what they are as long as YOU can live comfortably with your decision.

I get the ‘policing’ of all things tech and PI’s, and that’s a common reaction in the early part of a suspicion or dday, but continued over a lengthy period, well that would make me miserable over time and would be enough to throw his jackass out. I wouldn’t want to live my life constantly monitoring his actions and whereabouts. Ask yourself (or work on it with your therapist) why you do?

I discovered my husband had himself a ‘girlfriend’ not long before you first found out you were being deceived, and I can tell you I was FLOORED that he’d been shagging this woman for nearly 4 years, and had been living this little fantasy other life (he worked away from home for 3-4 months at a time then) where he’d go and stay at her house for a week before travelling to work and a week before coming home afterward. Of course  because to me, his lengthy absences were normal, my issue was that he was being a nasty twat when he was home for no apparent reason....until I got fed up with him being a C and then a light seemed to go on..then I started digging...gathered evidence and confronted him.  His face was a picture!😂 I told him he had as long as it took me to pack the car to tell me. Me or her. You don’t get both, 🛎🔚...🙄

I believe your husband is too comfortable in the knowledge that you want your marriage to work. He’s doing it because he can. There are no real consequences for his behaviour. Give him some. Stop policing him, it doesn’t work, and decide what YOU want your future to look like with or without him. Give yourself time to work it out. Set your boundaries, for your old marriage is dead, and if he’s joining you on the rest of your life journey (which is up to you), then YOU decide what you find acceptable and what isn’t. He can either step up and be a decent man, let alone husband, or eff off. Either way, this journey is now yours.

Expectation is the root of all heartache.. ’Will Shakespeare
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Anthro - I read your post just as my husband came home from work and had been thinking the same thing - Why am I staying?...  I've already made my list based on homework from my therapist, and in that list are a lot of things that we've built over 35 years.  However, nowhere on my list is there "because I love him" or his name at all...  But I think that is so much of it.  35 years.  How could he just want to throw that all away?  I know there is no logic in these affairs, but it just mystifies me.

And then reading all the rest of your responses...  I can't thank you all enough.  I need this support so much.  I've been doing this "alone" for too long.  Back 7-10 years ago I was trying to follow Marriage Builders and was on their forum.  I felt like we were doing well, but we couldn't just stop his business travel - and it wasn't like I could just pick up and go with him.  The biggest issue was the emotional connection - and that can be done long distance right from his office computer.  That was the issue with the first connection, so....  Anyhow, when I went on the forum to ask for help when I found out about the false recovery and the physical affair I was not supported - I was blasted from all sides telling me it was MY FAULT for cherry picking the program and they had little to no sympathy for me.  I was floored.  I only wish I had done another internet search at that point to find this group.  I do know their material really well.  And now looking at it I really wish I could have seen the flaws as well as I can now.  

I have a lot of soul searching to do.  ETD - I believe what you say is true - he is too comfortable in the knowledge that I want this marriage to work.  I have SO much invested in it at this point.  We are in the process of a remodel of our home that has been in the works for 15 years and plans for our son's wedding.  In the beginning I put it off our home work because of finances not knowing where the kids would go to college, etc.  Then I found myself the last few years putting it off because I was worried I'd be doing it for someone else.  After winter of 2018 when I felt like there was no way they weren't in touch again I said "F" it and found a contractor to help me build my dream.  Build us the nest "we" always wanted. I think someplace in there that I thought he would see that I was again investing in our future and stop his nonsense with her.  And he might of.  For awhile. 

EasyAs ABC - Thank you for your perspective.  This is definitely not a casual fling.  This is a deep emotional relationship. Unfortunately the OW in this case could care less about my feelings - it is all about her.  I am certain she is plotting her next move.  And I have to rely on my husband to have the strength to resist her.  Which gets right back to the comment that ETD made that I covered above - I want him to want to have those defenses up, so I have voiced that I want to make this marriage work.  Why else would I want to go to marriage counseling and my own therapy?  Why would I put myself through all this hell after all that he did?  I also have to admit to not wanting her to "win" and wanting so much for her to be hurting even 10% of what I am at this point.  I don't think she is capable of that though. I'm sure she hates me just as much as I hate her.  She wants me gone and she's got the manipulation down to a science.  That's not an excuse for my husband, but I have very little hope that she has any empathy at all for me. 

Notemanj - Sounds like you can relate exactly to where I am.  Why do we stay?  We do have our reasons.  The sad part is that other than this, he treats me well.  And Keepabuzz - It is amazing how that gut feeling is spot on. When the PI called me 2 days after I hired him he told me mine was the easiest job he had in over 20 years of doing this.  I knew EXACTLY what would happen within the 24 hours of monitoring.  Without having any emails, texts, etc to go by.  I just knew...  I need to remember that going into the Truth Talk.  Which is why I'm a mess right now - I'm reliving all those awful feelings so that I can remember when I was certain there was connection.  And right now I'm having trouble finding space in there that I felt like there wasn't...  

HangingOn - I have his letter and he has signed that there is no contact and won't ever be again.  My letter states that if he lies in the Truth Talk, he is to pack his things and leave.  And I have my gut to guide me...  And I think my issue is to be prepared to throw him out if I feel like he does lie.  He is not defensive about it, but maybe because he's lied to himself since ending it to make it all ok in his head.  I personally don't feel like he's felt enough shame to fully make the changes in his heart that are necessary for him to be done with her forever.  However, he's also agreed to having a lawyer draw up a postnuptial that says that if he is ever in contact with her again, he is to leave and the majority of all of our assets become mine.  However, again, that leaves it up to me to continue to investigate whenever I feel his distance from me.  I don't know if I can continue to live that way...

BorealJ - Thanks for the shot in the arm.  I need it to focus on myself.  I do have to figure out how to make myself a priority - not the marriage. I need to pull out that list again about why I am staying.  I need to envision the life without him in it and see how peaceful my life could be.  I swear I can feel the cortisol in my blood at this point - and have felt it for a very long time.  I do believe much of the physical issues and the off/on deep depression I've had over the past 10 years are directly related to the stress of it all.  I think I've tried so hard over the years to make sure that it's not all about me that I've lost me in the process.  You raise kids, you focus on the family and someplace in there so much of yourself just get trampled.  I feel like that old worn and dirty doormat.  I know I need to throw out that old doormat of a life and replace it with something much stronger.  Maybe one of those cast iron grates...

THANK YOU ALL!!  You've given me a lot to think about heading out to work.
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There is the fog, as in a denial of the real harm the affair is causing or has caused. Separately, even and maybe especially(!) out of the fog, there is trickle truth related to shame, not wanting to further hurt the BS, and not wanting the BS to leave if they knew the details. So yes, I think trickle truth can remain a problem long after an affair is over.

I'm not the right person to ask about feelings versus evidence. I created a document with my accounts and passwords, and my H can unlock my phone. I don't know how much he truly looks around this many years out, but I make it available as an act of good faith. I don't have an iPhone, which would be more easily trackable, but I use Waze and Glympse sometimes to share my location.
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I think you've already received really sound advice so I don't have a lot to add. I think Anthro hit the nail on the head.  The place to start is with the question he suggested you ask yourself.  I think it is very important for any of us to know exactly WHY we are choosing to stay.  But in your case, I think it would need to be a very powerful reason at this point with all that you have gone through.  

The other point I'd like to make is that this is YOUR LIFE.  Do not let anyone - family, friends, people on this site or any other - tell you how to live it.  You have already had far too many choices made for you.  If you want to stay with your husband and keep working on your marriage - DO IT and don't let a soul tell you differently.  But if you are tired of DDs and are tired of working on your marriage - THAT IS 100% OKAY TOO.  And don't let anyone make you feel bad about it. 

You have clearly tried everything to save this marriage.  So if you decide you are done, you should leave with the cleanest of hearts.  This was in NO WAY your doing.  I am incredibly disappointed that there were people who made you feel that ANY part of this mess was your fault or that you weren't handling it "correctly".  That is bullcrap.  You have fought tooth and nail and FAR, FAR harder than most would.  You have every reason to hold your head high. 

And if you choose to stay, it should be your husband doing intensive therapy - because that is where the problems are arising.  While there are always things we can work to improve (to become a better spouse, parent - or overall human being) the only one repeatedly returning to dishonest behavior is your husband.  He needs to figure out why.  And that is something you can't do for him - or make him do.  He has to want it for himself and for the people he loves.  If not, you will always be waiting for the other shoe to drop.
BS - Female
Married 27 years, one adult child
DD May 2016

“When we are no longer able to change a situation, we are challenged to change ourselves.” - V Frankl
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UrbanExplorer - We have LIFE360 installed on all of our phones.  (Adult "children" are still on our plan - but only if they keep LIFE360 and location services active on their phone so we can know where they are - they've had that on since they were teenagers...).  We can, and do, track each other.  Unfortunately that only tells you where the phone is though...  And when you text and don't get a response for over 5 hours... 

ThrivenotSurvive - Thank you. You just said a lot of things that I really, really needed to hear.  I just had my physical and broke down at my doctor's office.  She insisted that I sign myself up for a retreat at one of the many places available to me and just GO and get away from the situation and focus on me.  I can't do it at home anymore because the triggers are everywhere and I'm obviously not able to think really clearly when I am constantly barraged.  I had a severe anxiety attack while waiting for the doctor.  Had to force myself to sit still and not go running out of the office.  The PTSD is awful...  I'm sure part of it was that I was doing my STD testing today, but there were multiple triggers before I even left the house this morning that had my heart pounding.

She also suggested I find a local meditation or support group to join as this is very lonely work.  I consider you guys my new support group for the wound at hand, but I do need to learn how to be more mindful for my own soul.  She did make a breakthrough with me sitting there in the office.  She had me close my eyes and breathe deep - then made me name the feeling that I was experiencing that was creating such anxiety.  I had to pull it out of subconscious, look at it and place it in my consciousness with its name.  Fear.  Hurt.  Then she had me look at it and focus on it.  Feel it.  "You have to feel it to heal it"- and then let it float away.  Don't make it go - but once you've brought it forward and looked it square on, it can be released.  Not saying it won't come back, but every time you do this it is supposed to help.  And I felt so much better when I left the office than when I came in.  I am blessed to have found her!  She is not only an MD, but a compassionate healer...  Seems very rare these days.  

Thanks again to you all - I can't tell you how much just reading through the other threads on this board has helped - and all the other items available to us on this website.  I purchased the Recovery Manual for Betrayed Spouses yesterday and have already found some wisdom in there that I needed to wrestle with as well.  I need to take my time.  I need to find myself...
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Need Strength- I can’t tell you how happy I am that you’ve found a provider that is compassionate and knowledgeable, it really makes a world of difference. 
My PCP is the same way, when my barrage of STD testing came time and time again during my ex husbands affairs, she was the one there telling me it wasn’t my fault, when I had no one else to confide in. When my husband assaulted me and I ran to the arms of an attached man, she was the one who really pushed me to get into therapy, because she’s just my PCP, not my therapist.
Stay strong, and make sure you do what’s best for YOU in the end. It’s time for you to be selfish, after the many years your husband has spent being selfish. But you have the mental maturity to be selfish in a healing way, for yourself. Don’t feel guilty if you know in your heart staying is your best option, but also don’t feel an ounce of guilt if you decide leaving is in the best interest of your sanity, happiness and overall mental health. We always associate being selfish with a negative, but you can be “selfish” in a positive way, for yourself. You need to look out for you, because your husband obviously isn’t. 
I wish you the absolute best. 
BS to an abusive H 2009-2018
OW 2018-2019
I wear many hats.
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Take note of his actions. Not his words. His words are a meaningless mess of lies and part truths. Clinging to them and waiting for them to decide what you want to do won’t help. This is the mistake I made. 

As such, in cases like these where they’re obviously not ready to give a proper ‘truth talk’, there’s just no point pushing for it. I did that. I got fed more trickle truth. It was ridiculously damaging. It’s why I cannot trust him even now, despite plenty of hard work on both sides since.

I guess the question is going to be the same as what had been asked above. Why do you want to stay? The second part of that, is if you DO want to stay, at what cost? Are you all in no matter what happens? (Unadvisable). Are you willing to work on this if HE gives his all? What happens if he DOESN’T give his all to working on this? Will that be enough for you? What will make you leave? What will make you stay? 

35 years is a long time. So is 10 years of it. It’s a lot to ‘lose’... yet it has already been lost. Choosing to continue on in this marriage doesn’t change that loss. 

Another big thing is following up on the decisions you make. If you have truly decided that if he lies again, you kick him out, be prepared to actually do it. I failed on this one too- or at least, I was inconsistent. I would leave myself, because I wasn’t sure what I wanted to do... but I would eventually return (hours, days or weeks later). The worst thing would be to threaten a course of action and not follow through though- that just tells your husband there are no consequences to his actions and that you are going to stay no matter what he does.
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EasyAsABC - Thank you for your kind words.  I was in such a good place after my doctor appointment yesterday.  Today, well...

Hurting - You have nailed exactly much of my thought process right now.  I had a rough night (triggered just as falling asleep last night as he rolled away from me) and then a pretty awful morning.  Then a marriage therapy session today that was also painful.  But painful in a way that just makes me think harder about why I am staying.  Although I think the session made him think more about his affair - acknowledging that this really is 10 years, not just the last few months after a 6 year no contact, or make that 5, or 4...  whichever story we are on now.

His actions are mostly good.  I feel like he's starting to wrestle with this internally.  He came back from his own counseling appointment last night very pensive and seemed to be starting to feel maybe a bit of what it's like to look hard at yourself.  I honestly don't think he's ever done that before.

I think he's gotten so good at lying that I'm not sure I will ever be able to trust him and I don't know if I can live that way for the rest of my life.  But maybe I can tell - it's that deep gut feeling  I just don't know if I want to rely on that.

So I am home looking at possible options to get away alone. A retreat to just figure out who I am - or who I want to become. And at the same time going away scares me - mostly because I feel like I need to watch his every move like a hawk.  But at the same time, I can't control him.  He will do what he's going to do, just like he's always done.  And if that means contacting her and firing up that grill again, I guess I have to take my chances. I feel like it's too early in the recovery process for him to understand how quickly that grill gets lit.  But one would think he's figured that one out by now.  

I'm a bit overwhelmed trying to keep track of everyone on here, but there was one post that still sticks out in my mind - about wanting it all or nothing at all.  I will have to go find it and print it.  It was good...  It is how I feel.  But when I acknowledge that I also acknowledge that I can't even begin to see how that could happen.  I've never been a pessimist before, but I do feel like my glass is 1/2 empty - and it's because someone else has been drinking out of it. (And look at that awful shade of lipstick on the glass!)

I need to decide by tomorrow whether or not we do the truth talk on Saturday or put it off.  I thought I was ready.  Maybe I'm not because I can't see myself following through with making him leave if I feel like what he gives me is trickle truth.  I have no way to confirm it.  Except that what he has told me does not ring true.  And at the same time, do I care?  I guess I do.  And I need to figure out why.  Maybe I put it off until I've had some alone time to figure things out.

Hurting - I really feel like running away.  Which is why the retreat sounds so good.  I just don't know if I'd ever feel like coming back.  What made you come back?  I re-read your last paragraph.  It is so very, very true.  Words of experience.  I hope I have the strength to learn from your words and experience.
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