Courage
I am almost 7 months post affair discovery. Trust has been a long road... I can say since being discovered, I have trusted my husband in that the affair is over. The details of the affair though, have been sketchy. From the minute of discovery, the lies began... From who she was, to how long the affair went on, to what outings they went on, to whether is was sexual or not. It seemed as though I only got truths when lies were uncovered. Firstly , the timeline of when it started- he admitted to when it started, but later retracted his story when I found a letter dated to months previous to his original admitted start date. Then I got more details and learned it began way sooner than he said. When I asked about places they went, he only admitted to things I discovered . I often said, 'I find it somewhat suspect that the only places you say you went -(she is a waitress and he said he only would see her when she was at work, and once in a while they'd go for coffee) outside of the pub are the places I've discovered. Id say, 'come on, I'm not friggin stupid- give me some credit' Id ask specific questions- did you ever take a day off work to be with her, did you ever go out of town etc... Of course it was a no, and then I find out in Dec- 2 months after discovery, a letter written and the date was quite a bit before the date he originally said when the affair began. So not only did I discover it started months before he said, but in the letter he wrote how amazing it was to spend an entire day with her... I checked the day- feb. 14th- and low and behold, it was a work day-... So then he admits he did take a day off, but only once. Add salt to the wounds that it was valentines day and the day after our sons 2nd bday.

Then last weekend I find a card he wrote her about their amazing day in Toronto- I was stunned, shocked- this is new information from the affair- almost 7 months later. So after discovering this he admits that yes he took her to a sporting event in Toronto 2 years ago. Remember I asked him, did you ever go out of town and he said no... More lies!!!

And of course- you guessed it- they never had sex either- yes they kissed, but never went further. He swore up and down- made me feel stupid and crazy for asking and insisting that it had to have gotten to that. I'd say- 'okay, you had a 2 year affair, I've seen many things you've written to each other and you expect me to believe it didn't get sexual??? Come on, you are so in love with her, your letters tell her how you can't wait to be with her, to be wrapped around her- how amazing it feels to love and be loved. How everything about her is amazing ... And you only kissed??' I begged him for the truth- I'd tell him I needed it. He'd make me feel stupid, like I was going crazy. I'd send him long emails trying to prove that things he said didn't make sense. He'd get frustrated and say things like, "I didn't need sex, can't you just understand that it was the emotional connection i longed for", or, "should I just admit I had sex to make you happy bc it seems like no matter how many times I tell you we didn't, you just keep pushing". Well, low and behold, after finding that card last week about his adventure in Toronto I went crazy- and he wrote me a 6 page letter divulging many of the things I was begging for- all the places they went- movies, mini putt, dinner, baseball games ... And yes, there was sex. After 7 months of trying to trust this man, and all the work we've done- all the times he has sworn no more lies- I've finally gotten the truth about the affair. Initially when I read the letter, I felt relief- I knew it in my gut there was more, but I was also trying to trust my husband again. Then the pain of these new truths have set in. So here I am feeling the intense pain I felt 7 months ago. My husband is beside himself in guilt and he's almost angry with me bc of my pain from this new revelation. He says he shouldn't have told me and that the reason he withheld was bc he couldn't stand hurting me. He is frustrated bc now that I know the truth, I should be ready to move forward. He just doesn't get that I needed the truth. I am glad I have it now, but I'm bitter at him for all the times I begged and pleaded and literally almost went out of my mind with the thoughts that he was not telling me the truth. As I said, it never added up.
So here I am- not sleeping or eating, going out of my mind in pain and now that I know for sure it was sexual, I have visuals of them that I can't get out of my head. I know it will pass, but it's tough. I know I would never have trusted him again without the truth. So it's like a double edged sword. But I was willing to take on the pain of discovering more lies than to live knowing he wasn't fully disclosing.
I find it hard though at how well he lied about the truth all this time. How he held me in my despair promising that he would never lie again. How after reading many articles from your site, that he knew the truth was the only way. He would say how amazing it felt to have no more lies... Bullsh#%. I do understand to a degree his reasoning, but how could he see the pain I was in and not see telling me the truth was better. It was not his decision to make on my behalf!!!The first time we were intimate after the affair I said to him, "you know how morally wrong it would be for you to do this if you are lying that you did not have sex with her". He assured me he was telling the truth. I am angry and feel so violated. I just wish he have it to me straight in the beginning.
How do I get past this- all the lies, and that yes, it was sexual. Although my gut told me it was sexual, I also wanted to believe him when he said it wasn't. Just like when I began to suspect an affair, suspecting it and discovering it are two different things. Your heart wants so desperately to not believe it could be possible even though your brain is screaming- wake up you dummy- can't you see this. It's an inner struggle between needing the truth and so desperately hoping you're gut is wrong!!!!
I keep asking myself how much pain can one person take? How many times must I be hurt until I say I've had enough. Am I stupid to want to continue, or should i move on. My husband is getting frustrated- he says," yes I had an affair, I lied, I was deceptive, but every lie I told was to protect you. Do you know how awful it is to see your wife in pain knowing that you are the cause. Can't you put it aside and see how hard I've been working the last 7 months?"

That is true- I am so hurt and confused. I struggle with where to put this pain and anger when I also want to try and save my marriage. I am supposed to act loving to this man who destroyed me with lies and deception. A very tall order indeed. However- I look at the other side... Divorce and that's not too appealing either. Especially when I know he is a loving man who lost his way and made bad decisions. The state our marriage was in when his affair started was not great for either of us. Had someone come across my path that I connected with and made me feel loved and appreciated - things I was longing for and not getting in my marriage- would I have succumbed to an affair. Id like to think I wouldn't, but as many of these affair stories can attest to, many people don't actively search for them- it happens often so fast that getting out before crossing the line becomes blurred and your sense of right blurs with it. Not an excuse at all, just trying to find grace in this by looking at it from the perspective of an AP. perhaps, this is where trust and forgiveness begins to build and healing starts. This is where I want to be- just don't know how to get there.

Thoughts? Sorry, this is long. You know how it is, once you get started the words keep coming.......
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TimT

Courage wrote:
...just trying to find grace in this by looking at it from the perspective of an AP. perhaps, this is where trust and forgiveness begins to build and healing starts. This is where I want to be- just don't know how to get there.


Any attempt you make toward an empathetic consideration of his experience is a good one, but may not be enough to rebuild trust. The bulk of that work needs to be done by your husband. It sounds like you want to get back to trust, you want to find healing in your marriage, you are willing to risk an ongoing relationship with someone who hurt you so deeply. But, because of the history as you've described it, he is going to have to do much more to win back your trust. From an emotional perspective, you cannot just blindly forget the past and move on. (You can forgive that way, but never truly trust that way.)

If you're not getting professional help together, you should. If your husband has not made use of resources like the How To Help Your Spouse Heal from Your Affair book, he should. 

Have you considered the possibility that you may never really trust him again? That is the potential consequence of any affair. After betrayal, trusting is a possible outcome, but not a necessary one. Even if he does everything 100% right from this point forward, the wounds he has inflicted may be fatal. I hope not... I've seen "miracles" happen on the other side of severe betrayals, but nobody can tell you what you ought to be able to do at this point.

Unfortunately, your husband's pattern presents a worse-case scenario for rebuilding trust. From an affair-recovery perspective, this list of circumstances ranks situations from "easiest to regain trust" (top of the list) to "hardest to regain trust" (bottom of list). See where your situation fits? You are struggling for good reason, despite your husband's frustration.

Regaining Trust After An Affair: Easiest to Most Difficult

  1. A short, one-time affair that is quickly disclosed.
  2. A short, one-time affair that is discovered, but quickly & completely acknowledged.
  3. A longer affair that is disclosed.
  4. A longer affair that is discovered, but quickly & completely acknowledged.
  5. A short, one-time affair that is discovered but lying about it continues.
  6. A longer affair that is discovered, but lying about it continues.
Lying, or letting truth trickle out, only compounds the problem. Regaining trust becomes much more difficult. And if there have been any other previous affairs in your relationship history, you are looking at a very long recovery process. The possibility of success depends very much on how quickly he moves to complete honesty and how diligently he continues to focus on YOUR need for healing... taking the responsibility for creating a safe place.

His failure to do this may not be due to ongoing deceitfulness. He probably struggles with shame and does not want to see you hurt anymore. This is where a good counselor can help him understand that your healing will only come if he's willing to join you in the pain, to slow down enough to walk alongside you.

I know others have already been through this and come out the other side. I'm interested in hearing more about their experiences in this, too.
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Intuition77
I don't have any advice to give mine lied and trickle truthed just like yours & actually still lies. Unsays things he already admitted to, changes stories when I catch that like you it's not adding up & can't even give me a timeline-now claims amnesia for almost everything. He started with it just started to maybe a month ago to summer to finally months later it was 10 months ago. And now I wonder if even that is the truth! Could have been years! Also wanted me to believe 10 month affair she started sending nude photos early summer but they didn't kiss until sept & no sex until "maybe the week before you found out".

Yeah I'm pretty sure if your wife caught you JUST as it became sexual your first defense would be to say it just started last week not "I can't remember". So I just wanted to say your not alone & your struggles aren't your fault. The lies is what destroys it the most. I too sent numerous articles about the importance Of truth and gave him that book Tim mentioned. He'll say I realize I handled thins wrong then continues to lie. I don't think I'll ever trust mine again. I'm trying to learn to retrust my gut which is hard when like you said you don't know what was real or lies and the deception went on so long.
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HonestWife
Wow. You are not alone. My husband has lied and deceived even in recovery. I even posted "can chronic liars change?" And intuition 77, I would love to start a post on learning to trust your intuition Bc these affairs went on forever and I had no clue. I knew we had problems but how do you guess affairs???
Trying to make marriage work after my husband's 15 years of affairs. Just found out. Currently in house separation.
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TimeToFly
My ex-husband lied so many times about things that I lost count. He would give half-truths about something to try & make himself look like he was being at least somewhat truthful. All in all it was just lies on top of more lies. I kept enduring more hurt & pain with each one & eventually the truth would come out (he was with her) & I would be devastated again. 

As I said there were so many lies, but some have left a permanent scar. I will share one of them.

We were at the airport & he was leaving for a business trip to Europe. He assured me that he would not be seeing her while he was there (she lives in Europe). He said "it wouldn't be good for us right now if I had any contact with her as we are trying really hard to work on our marriage". I watched his plane leave the gate & less than 24 hours later he was in a five star hotel in Amsterdam with her. I would later find all this out through my own "detective work" & eventually he did tell me about it. I should have closed the door then & there to any further ideas of working on our marriage. I often wish I would have been stronger & been able to do that. Instead it took several more rounds of endless lies before I finally said "I'm done". 

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Courage
TimeToFly wrote:
My ex-husband lied so many times about things that I lost count. He would give half-truths about something to try & make himself look like he was being at least somewhat truthful. All in all it was just lies on top of more lies. I kept enduring more hurt & pain with each one & eventually the truth would come out (he was with her) & I would be devastated again. 

As I said there were so many lies, but some have left a permanent scar. I will share one of them.

We were at the airport & he was leaving for a business trip to Europe. He assured me that he would not be seeing her while he was there (she lives in Europe). He said "it wouldn't be good for us right now if I had any contact with her as we are trying really hard to work on our marriage". I watched his plane leave the gate & less than 24 hours later he was in a five star hotel in Amsterdam with her. I would later find all this out through my own "detective work" & eventually he did tell me about it. I should have closed the door then & there to any further ideas of working on our marriage. I often wish I would have been stronger & been able to do that. Instead it took several more rounds of endless lies before I finally said "I'm done". 



TimeToFly, that sounds so devestating. We want so hard to save our marriages and are almost willing to overlook anything. I am sure it's hard, but you are probably way better off. No one deserves such lies and deceipt. I would think you maybe have found some peace knowing you did everything possible to save your marriage. There have been many lies told to me about the affair, but I think he has been truthful moving forward. I told him this morning, if I find out he has had any contact with her and keeping it from me, it's over. That is the line I have to draw. I still struggle with wondering if I should continue. I have been hurt, lied to, deceived for so long. I want to be number one and loved for who I am. Not sure if I'll ever get that from my husband. Hoping, but not sure.
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HonestWife
TimeToFly wrote:
My ex-husband lied so many times about things that I lost count. He would give half-truths about something to try & make himself look like he was being at least somewhat truthful. All in all it was just lies on top of more lies. I kept enduring more hurt & pain with each one & eventually the truth would come out (he was with her) & I would be devastated again. 

As I said there were so many lies, but some have left a permanent scar. I will share one of them.

We were at the airport & he was leaving for a business trip to Europe. He assured me that he would not be seeing her while he was there (she lives in Europe). He said "it wouldn't be good for us right now if I had any contact with her as we are trying really hard to work on our marriage". I watched his plane leave the gate & less than 24 hours later he was in a five star hotel in Amsterdam with her. I would later find all this out through my own "detective work" & eventually he did tell me about it. I should have closed the door then & there to any further ideas of working on our marriage. I often wish I would have been stronger & been able to do that. Instead it took several more rounds of endless lies before I finally said "I'm done". 




I think it's so shocking and then they promise and we want to think they are straightening their lives out. Or maybe they do some things the right way ......

I told my husband I don't know when the last lie will put me over the edge but it will be one lie too many.
Trying to make marriage work after my husband's 15 years of affairs. Just found out. Currently in house separation.
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Intuition77
TimeToFly wrote:
My ex-husband lied so many times about things that I lost count. He would give half-truths about something to try & make himself look like he was being at least somewhat truthful. All in all it was just lies on top of more lies. I kept enduring more hurt & pain with each one & eventually the truth would come out (he was with her) & I would be devastated again. 

As I said there were so many lies, but some have left a permanent scar. I will share one of them.

We were at the airport & he was leaving for a business trip to Europe. He assured me that he would not be seeing her while he was there (she lives in Europe). He said "it wouldn't be good for us right now if I had any contact with her as we are trying really hard to work on our marriage". I watched his plane leave the gate & less than 24 hours later he was in a five star hotel in Amsterdam with her. I would later find all this out through my own "detective work" & eventually he did tell me about it. I should have closed the door then & there to any further ideas of working on our marriage. I often wish I would have been stronger & been able to do that. Instead it took several more rounds of endless lies before I finally said "I'm done". 



That is awful, Im so sorry you had to go through that. Sometimes I wish i had done more detective work before confronting because there are huge gaps I dont know and I struggle with not knowing what was real in my life. For a long time I assumed he would be honest, I mean I would and if you wnated to save your marriage and have a better honest one thats what you would do. But now that it seems he'll never be honest & the marriage inst something I want any longer if he does not massively change I figure knowing less at least means less flashbacks and pain? Though I don't know some times I just have massive flashbacks of what might have been occurring during our marriage like my brain needs to fill in the gaps. Ugh. Sucks either way I guess. And awfully sometimes I ask myself whats the worst possible scenario in that situation, then just assume that happened so I can just move past it and stop wondering.
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TimeToFly
I appreciate your kind words & understanding as it was an awful experience & that was just one of the many examples of things that he said & did to me. Even with all the detective work that I was doing (it became an obsession) he was still able to cover things up & lie about them for quite awhile at times. Eventually the facts would come to light & I was always the one getting hurt again.

I'm really not sure which way is better...having gaps that you can't fill or knowing everything. They both are painful in their own way. Sometimes I used to wonder was he with her, was he calling her, etc. & that was painful just thinking about it. Yet not knowing was also very difficult because I continued to feel like he wasn't being truthful...which he wasn't.

I've often joked with a couple of close friends that I could write a book about this stuff but I'm not sure anyone would believe it! There are times I can't really believe I lived this way for almost four years. At least some of this is behind me but of course with divorce comes a whole new set of challenges that you have to face & it isn't easy.
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Courage
This is an excellent letter written to the WS about why it's so important for the truth about the affair to be fully disclosed before the BS can even begin to work towards rebuilding trust and finding forgiveness. Loved the analogy of a puzzle. It's like the WS has the whole 1000 piece puzzle put together, but the BS is missing 400 pieces so does not have the same perspective on the puzzle that the WS does. Sent this to my husband yesterday- I still don't think he understands the damage and pain he created by giving me the Trickle Down Truth! Please read if you have a minute.
http://bssgiv.tripod.com/id2.html
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Courage
Tim, I appreciate this in depth reply. It scares me to think that I may never trust this man again. That is not acceptable to me. I know it will never be like it was, but I have to believe if our marriage gets to a place of healing, forgiveness and new found love, trust will come with it. I know for a fact that I would rather end my marriage than live the rest of my life with this man never fully trusting him. That sounds like a life sentence of pain. I do not want to punish myself with uncertainty, fear and mistrust for the rest of my life for something that I had no control over. That is not fair to me.

I read my post and your reply to my husband. I told him how depressing it felt to know that we are worst case scenario of succeeding bc of the length of his affair and his continual lies. He said, " well there are also some positives in there too that I am focussing on" He is pretty certain that through his actions and behaviour, I will fully trust him again. At this point, I do trust him since DDay. I have made a promise to myself though, and clearly stated this to him, if there have been any lies since DDay- like him seeing her, or being in contact with her, it's over. That is the line in the sand for me. I pray to God that he hasn't, his behaviour and actions tell me he's being honest.... But at this point he's not a very trustworthy person so I am not 100%. I hear the pain of these BS on this forum whose WS are still trying to decide btw them and the AP and it is gut wrenching. Believe me I know, you think you know exactly what you'd do In a situation until it happens. ( you know, like if my spouse ever had an affair that would be a deal breaker) , but I have to promise myself that if there are lies after DDay, I can end my marriage in peace, knowing I gave everything. At that point, I hope i realize that this is so totally about him, and not about rebuilding our marriage that there is no other way. Sad sad day I'm sure for many BS who made these very difficult decisions, but the hell of living a gut wrenching life the other way sounds even more desolate. No judgement here, please don't see it that way- I just know I could not handle that kind of pain!! Id rather be alone for the rest of my life, enjoying my children , enjoying friends and activities I enjoy than to be at the mercy of my husband who literally has no respect for me. A person who can even justify this and do this to another has so many issues within , that I would fear, there is no hope. No one deserves to be treated that way.
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