minnie16
Wow what a bummer.  I'm talking about the new podcast that describes limerence.  I'm the BS, 3 years out.  I had kind of gotten past his feelings for her...  I had healed myself by thinking, "Oh, he didn't really care that much about her."  Now I realize he was OBSESSED with her.. I was really nothing.  I loved the podcast about Trauma Brain... I usually find Tim's podcasts very helpful.. but this is just DEPRESSING!! I can never live up to this bar which she set.. He will never feel this attracted/ in love / with me..
D day June, 2016
ws affair: 18 months sexual affair plus 2 years emotional affair after. Ow 20 yrs old; WS 60
live in Texas
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UrbanExplorer
For me, having been the WS who experienced limerence, I get something different from the podcast. The feelings for my AP were a neurochemical fairy tale, not part of a genuine and healthy loving relationship. They were less than, if you will. 
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TimT
Limerence is not a part of every affair. I don't know your situation, but it's possible that he wasn't that attached. But even if he was, limerence is not a measure of healthy connection or secure love. 
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Skelling
TimT wrote:
Limerence is not a part of every affair. I don't know your situation, but it's possible that he wasn't that attached. But even if he was, limerence is not a measure of healthy connection or secure love. 


I found the podcast very helpful, although I don't think that my husband experienced limerance with his AP (firstly because it was very short, he was not physically attracted to her and felt a sense of owing her, because she listened and was nice to him) but defiately attachment in terms of the rewards. He was seeking a reward/affirmation (as he felt he was failing me as my husband), which his AP sensed and used.

As for her I do think limerance was def. a factor as she tried to reproduce the positive feeling she received, by trying to keep the memories of the sex alive. Or maybe it was just pure manipulation but even that wouldn't exclue limerance.

I agree that its def. not something to strive after as it also said that limerance is exhausting and an unnatural version of the self is presented in order to keep the other party interested. Very selfish yes, very painful for the BS absolutely but something to strive for nope. I don't think so. Now that doesn't mean, I don't want my husband to think about me and how he can make me smile or suprise me. I want him still to daydream about our time we had and will have. I want him to think about compliments and ways to make me feel special. That he was able to do that seemingly so effortless with the OW does hurt like hell still but I know now that he wasn't really saying those things because he really felt them and thought them to be true but because 1 he felt it was expected of him and 2 to get a positive reaction, so he can feel better about himself. Convoluted, selfish mind but less painful than the version existing in my head ( which is closer to a stupid, romantic movie script, where the two can't keep their hands of each other because they are oh so into each other...)
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minnie16
Thanks for your insights, friends and Tim. I think he was very infatuated with his girlfriend, but was not experiencing true love.. I will take some time with your comments and try to allow them to negate my unrealistic reaction to the podcast. 
D day June, 2016
ws affair: 18 months sexual affair plus 2 years emotional affair after. Ow 20 yrs old; WS 60
live in Texas
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Cam28
How long did it take for him to figure this out.  One minute my WS says it was just friends with benefits and in another conversation, he says if I had asked him during the affair, he would have said he wanted to be married to both of us.  She was his best friends wife.  He constantly tried to have both of us with him and I didn’t know what was going on so I didn’t think it was strange. Now it makes me sick.  He said he felt so good when he was with her but also loved me.  I am so confused.
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Vanessa
Cam28
Is this relationship acceptable to you?  Do YOU want to be with a man who isn't sure he wants to be married (you know that whole "forsaking all others stuff") to you?
Of course he loved you - otherwise he would have divorced you.  He wanted to have his cake and eat it too.  He wanted the wonderfulness that is you AND the googley eyes teen age crust that is the AP. 
Unbroken people work to find that "crush" feeling with their spouse - you can fall in love with the same person many times.  Broken people want someone ELSE to make them feel good about themselves.
I wish your peace on this horrid journey.
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ThrivenotSurvive
Vanessa wrote:


Unbroken people work to find that "crush" feeling with their spouse - you can fall in love with the same person many times.  


Well said.
BS - Female
Married 27 years, one adult child
DD May 2016

“When we are no longer able to change a situation, we are challenged to change ourselves.” - V Frankl
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Crushed
I too am a betrayed spouse that is just not sure I want this marriage anymore. I just dont know what he felt for her.  My mind also has the romantic storybook setting.  His affair was over the phone and Skype no physical contact.   He says that all the I love  you, pet names, telling her he couldn't live without her, and emojis where just to get more sex from her.  I just can not believe this.  He says there was no romantic or emotional feelings that it was just live porn.   I have told him that if I find that it was emotional or romantic as I believe that I will divorce him.  It has been 3 years and it is eating me up inside.  
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HangingOn
Crushed...I feel you.  I have the same mantra I work to keep out of my head.  I am working to try to stop “looking for more”.  I felt the same, if I find. this I’ll do that.  I can’t live that way.  I felt like I was looking for the shoe to drop all the time, while my husband was trying his best to be a good husband.  If I looked hard, I was the one failing, not my WS.  I don’t always know if I want my marriage, but have decided it will be because of TODAY That i will base that decision, not for something I’m on edge worrying about that I can’t change anyway.  It is a well established boundary for us.

Only me, today, doing my best.
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Crushed
Maybe he does the best that he can.  But it's just not enough.  Will it ever be enough I dont think so.  He says he regrets it but he shows no empathy.  He just wants to live in the day.  When I trigger he says that he didnt do anything today.  He does not talk about it and gets aggravated when i do.  He goes with the i dont remember for most every question. When i badger him about reading he does some until he thinks I'm not checking anymore.   I gave him the ultimative to get help at this point I had my own therepist.  So he goes and finds a therapist and this guy wants to do couple therepy.  Does not want to talk about affair or anything but how angry I am and that I need to forgive him.   And i will grant him that i am still extremely hurt and angry and I want answers.  I want the why. I want him to have to look me in the eye and tell me the whole truth of what went on  and why.  I know the why will not be enough but I feel that he should have to go through all the pain and anguish that I did. digging through his filthy secrets on the computer.  Therepist said that I just need to realize that I will never get the truth at this point and start living in the day.  (No longer go to him)  I need to know how to get over the need for vengeance and the pain that is ripping my soul apart.  He was my whole life. I have never been with another man as I started dating him when I was 15. I've never been alone.  I can afford to leave so what is wrong with me that I dont just go.
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Keepabuzz
Crushed wrote:
Maybe he does the best that he can.  But it's just not enough.  Will it ever be enough I dont think so.  He says he regrets it but he shows no empathy.  He just wants to live in the day.  When I trigger he says that he didnt do anything today.  He does not talk about it and gets aggravated when i do.  He goes with the i dont remember for most every question. When i badger him about reading he does some until he thinks I'm not checking anymore.   I gave him the ultimative to get help at this point I had my own therepist.  So he goes and finds a therapist and this guy wants to do couple therepy.  Does not want to talk about affair or anything but how angry I am and that I need to forgive him.   And i will grant him that i am still extremely hurt and angry and I want answers.  I want the why. I want him to have to look me in the eye and tell me the whole truth of what went on  and why.  I know the why will not be enough but I feel that he should have to go through all the pain and anguish that I did. digging through his filthy secrets on the computer.  Therepist said that I just need to realize that I will never get the truth at this point and start living in the day.  (No longer go to him)  I need to know how to get over the need for vengeance and the pain that is ripping my soul apart.  He was my whole life. I have never been with another man as I started dating him when I was 15. I've never been alone.  I can afford to leave so what is wrong with me that I dont just go.


Your husband is not doing enough. No matter what he does, it will never really be enough, but he “actually” is NOT doing enough. You do not HAVE TO forgive him. I’m sure he does want to live in the present, well tough $hit! He doesn’t get to, because of what he did you are forced to live with the pain and destruction of HIS actions. When you trigger, he needs to show empathy. You aren’t feeling the pain of today, you are reliving the pain of his betrayal. Tell him what you need him to do, as ridiculous as that seems that you have to spell it out for him, and also tell him what you will do if you he doesn’t do those things. Lay down clear boundaries, with clear consequences and make a plan to carry out those consequences. For me, there was only one consequence, divorce. I had a plan. Where I would go, financial, etc. I still have that plan and can execute it at ANY time. I will keep that plan forever. I will always have a plan C. Plan A was destroyed by my wife, I’m currently living plan B. I never thought I would need anything other than plan A, but here I am....
Male BS, D-day July 2015, trying to stay out of the dark.....
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ThrivenotSurvive
Keep nailed it.  He is REALLY not doing enough.  Re-read Keep's post and think about what that means to you.  Staying with a spouse doing the bare minimum to help heal you and the marriage after betrayal is a recipe for disaster and heartbreak.  Consider leaving or pulling the 180 as a first step to focusing solely on YOU.  

Who knows  - you may find you not only feel better - but you find that life not focused on him but on fulfilling, healing and nurturing YOU feels pretty darn good.  
BS - Female
Married 27 years, one adult child
DD May 2016

“When we are no longer able to change a situation, we are challenged to change ourselves.” - V Frankl
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Keepabuzz
In the very early days after d-day my wife would get the teeny tiniest bit defensive with me at times and I would unleash the rage inside me upon her. Let me tell you it was BAD. It would have certainly been considered verbal abuse had it not all been true! 🙄 We went to MC and my wife brought this up and how much “she” hated it, and how hard it was on “her”. Before the therapist even respond, I blurted out “I don’t give a $hit.”  The she tried to expound upon her original comment, and I just blurted out “I don’t give a $hit”. Lol. At least I can laugh about it now. There wasn’t a d*mn thing funny about it at the time. The therapist then took the time to explain to her how triggers actually feel and what I was actually going through during them. She did a much better job than I could have. Then I said “I live with the biggest trigger I have, so I am triggered pretty much on a constant basis.”  My wife asked what she could do since the previous advice of “stop” “let’s take a break and come back to this when you’re calm” didn’t work on me, since I took her saying that as her dismissing me and that only brought out more rage.  The therapist looked at her and said “take it, you need to take it. When he responds emotionally to you, which is what you see as rage, you need to take it, but take it and instead see it not as rage. See it as pain. He is showing you his pain. The pain you caused him. He isn’t capable at this time, or likely any time in the near future to really show his pain. So you need to change to way you receive it, and in time he will change the way he shows it to you.”  I was thinking bull$hit, rage is all I have, but she was very right, although it took a very long time for me to completely stop raging. When she changed the way she “received” my rage, over time I didn’t feel the rage as strong, or the need to let it out as much or at as high a level. 

Your husband needs to “take it”, and receive it correctly, and deal with you correctly and he is doing none of it. 
Male BS, D-day July 2015, trying to stay out of the dark.....
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ThrivenotSurvive
That is perfectly stated, Keep. 
BS - Female
Married 27 years, one adult child
DD May 2016

“When we are no longer able to change a situation, we are challenged to change ourselves.” - V Frankl
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