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UrbanExplorer
I recently read a divorce busting technique that was like the 180 I am reading here except the left behind spouse tried to be (or appear, I suppose) happy when facing the spouse who left.
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Sandy2000

Fionarob wrote:
I have given my husband the "letting go" letter and I have completely stepped back from our marriage.   I am now doing the 180 and have a time frame where I need to see change and commitment if we are to stay married.


Sandy - I asked him that very question about what he would do if this was his daughter, what would he advise.  His answer - don't ask me questions I don't know the answer to. How can I possibly know what I would say to her.  He just avoided it because he knows what he would say to her - get rid of him.  Yes, it does affect the children as you say - I am very low, emotional, often quickly irritated, not sleeping well, distant.........no matter how much I try, I cannot hide it all from them.

I am actually wondering if the 180 might shake him into the ending the affair, but by then it might be too late.  The release I feel from finally stepping back is immense, and the thought of going back to the marriage and trying to forgive him and start fixing things again seems like such a huge task.  I am not sure I want to try anymore.  It's just all been so exhausting.  We are still living in the same house, and haven't said anything to the children at this stage....but apart from that it's like separate lives, and for me it's a far happier place to be at the moment. 


((((Fiona)))),

I can feel the despair in your post, but I'm glad you feel relieved, it's so draining.

Of course he knows what he would say to his daughter in that situation, but won't speak up. It's not a trick question, it's not rocket science.

As others have said, the 180 is for you to detach, not to make him end the affair. It's to prepare for a life without him.

It's about you focussing on yourself and your children.


So you would arrange activities with your kids (excluding him)
You ramp up your social life, by catching up with friends and go out in the evenings
Get out for walks or the gym, or take part in a sport you enjoy
Don't be glum (although I'm sure you feel that way). Appear neutral
Treat yourself to something like a massage or something.  Do it for YOU

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Fionarob
Yes I totally agree and get the whole point of the 180.  I am most definitely not doing it in order to manipulate him into ending the affair.  I am doing it because I have reached the end of the road, if he wants to leave then I am OK with that and I just want to get on with life now, I don't want to be part of his affair triangle anymore.

My concern is that I am feeling so much relief from finally stepping back, that it is actually telling me I don't want to be married anymore.  Just at the point that he is finally waking up to what he is going to loose I have reached a point of not wanting to step back into the marriage.  But how long can we go on living separate lives under the same roof because we are both too scared to make the final break, and tell our children?

And I know he will be begging and pleading and saying he doesn't want to leave.  I don't know how to stay strong enough and not give in to his pleading.
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Anna26
Fionarob wrote:
Yes I totally agree and get the whole point of the 180.  I am most definitely not doing it in order to manipulate him into ending the affair.  I am doing it because I have reached the end of the road, if he wants to leave then I am OK with that and I just want to get on with life now, I don't want to be part of his affair triangle anymore.

My concern is that I am feeling so much relief from finally stepping back, that it is actually telling me I don't want to be married anymore.  Just at the point that he is finally waking up to what he is going to loose I have reached a point of not wanting to step back into the marriage.  But how long can we go on living separate lives under the same roof because we are both too scared to make the final break, and tell our children?

And I know he will be begging and pleading and saying he doesn't want to leave.  I don't know how to stay strong enough and not give in to his pleading.


I understand how you feel, on the one hand so relieved to be able to step back but concerned that you will feel you need to be on your own permanently.
I did and do still feel like this too.

I think it's important to remember that if you still care for him at all then there is a chance that everything could still be revived should he begin to show you what you need to see. And by this I mean that his actions will speak louder than his words. So if he is pleading with you simply tell him that you need to be able to see changes as evidence he means what he says. If he is genuine about changing he should realise this for himself.

Remember too that even if you did decide that how you feel now, is telling you you don't want your marriage, Then you will be in no worse a position than you already were regarding leaving. You will just be clearer about it and feel stronger in yourself. Whatever happens it will be the right path for you because you will make it so.
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Sandy2000
Fionarob wrote:


Just at the point that he is finally waking up to what he is going to loose I have reached a point of not wanting to step back into the marriage.

But how long can we go on living separate lives under the same roof because we are both too scared to make the final break, and tell our children?

And I know he will be begging and pleading and saying he doesn't want to leave. I don't know how to stay strong enough and not give in to his pleading.


It's taken him too long to realise and all of this has been at your expense. If he looses the marriage he must accept that this is a consequence of the continuous cheating and disregard for your marriage, not to mention a total lack of respect for you as his wife.

The trust is gone and you're getting to the point of not caring - just remember he did this not you.

Be strong if he starts begging. Remind him what he said after dday number 5, yet it's happened 3 more times, so why would this be any different? While you are in house seperated he won't really get that he could loose everything. If you're still doing stuff like his laundry and preparing meals, he'll think you'll come round soon.

Remember he has the OW to meet his physical and emotional needs, so if things are bearable at home, him seeing the kids every day, you presenting as normal at family and social events along with other domestic activity not changing, that may suit him down to the ground as long as it lasts. In which case you'll be the only one suffering.

Some actual physical space between you is necessary for him to reflect and for you as well.

With regards to fear of telling the kids, with an initial seperation some couples say no more than we both need a time out to work through some issues. Once that time is over.... comes the next phase as per your other thread.

If you see the changes in the time apart and reconcile, then the kids don't need to be told any more.

If your WH becomes serious about making amends and being a safe partner, he will access the numerous online resources and you'll see the change very easily.

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violet
Hi Fionarob, I am sad to hear of your latest developments. I haven't been able to check in this site for a while. You were one of the first to give me sound advice/support on my first post and I will be forever grateful. If you remember we have similarities in our stories esp. longevity. Update I did a revised version of the 180 (revised because I noticed some of its points actually pushed my hubby further away) the vacillation has changed in length- more in my favor. Like you, the 180 w/c I initially did for him actually worked more for me. I am less paranoid, more accepting that I cannot change him but I can change ME. The more I took care of me and loved me I found ME and I was able to give more to my kids. My husband has been consistent with the changes- But my paranoia makes me count his footsteps, how long he stays in the bathroom etc. So I know when he changes and On times when he vacillates  he becomes avoidant so I pretend I'm just a friend, I don't txt, call, ask whatever- I do my daily stuff and when he comes to me for a few min. I make sure its a happy experience. Talk about easy light topics, or funny stories in the past and If I want him to realize something it is said in an indirect way, talk about other peoples experiences etc... I leave conversations hanging sometimes, so he can think- give him space. Also, I try not to mention the OW if I can because I don't want him thinking of her. Of course I backslide but because of the changes I see him feeling more for me. The more non judgmental I become, or the more safe/happy I am- the more I gain. remember people gravitate to happy people. Doing this has made the OW research me, my family and closest friends on FB- why? If she is so secure???plus I know since March alone they have separated 4x- I'm letting her dig her grave.... Oh I feel pain esp. when after a few days after break up my hubby starts staring into space- Well he did this to himself- I have been very clear that I deserve better and I even asked permission to find someone else. Why ask permission? because I promised I wouldn't stab him like he did me and since he won't let go of me and her then I will break us apart as soon as I can accept my kids will be ok- told him I may not be perfect and maybe she is- then good luck, but his not perfect either and there's a lot out there better than him, but I chose him and loved you even when you were unlovable. So I have nothing to lose now... Conversations like this keeps him on his toes and takes him a step closer. They say three steps forward two steps back- For me now its more three steps forward one step back (I save one step). Im definitely not out of the woods- Im very guarded of my breathless heart, but since we seem to have good times now when were on the bad times- Im more confident...sometimes I even feel excited and imagine someone else- I have let go and sometimes lost interest in my marriage but I love my kids and for their sake I do not want them in a broken home (not yet). BTW have you heard about limerence- addictive behaviors/increased levels of dopamine and decreased levels of seratonin w/c could possibly be the cause of the fog, well statistics show max it last 36 months- it could last more but that would be a statistic anomaly... Were almost there huh!. Try baby steps... Also, Ever asked yourself why he wouldn't just move in with the OW if he is so sure- others have done it- maybe that's a sign that he is in cognitive dissonance? I hate to see your family broken- Is there something you haven't tried that was very different from your usual approach other than kicking him out? 
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Fionarob
violet - good to hear from you and that you feel your situation is improving, in terms of how you feel within yourself.

I told my husband I want a  separation and that he needs to leave the house.  I could no longer find it in my heart to forgive him anymore.  I asked him again when he was going to 'phone the AP and end it with her..........he refused to do it while she was on holiday and even asked me if I thought it would be a nice thing to do!!!  Honestly, when he said that I realised he is incapable of putting me or the children before this other woman or himself.  He didn't want to hurt her while she was on holiday, but has been willing to hurt me over and over and over again.

So I have woken up to the fact that he would probably never end it with her as long as it suited them both.  I was the third person in the triangle, allowing it all to continue, and so I have taken myself out of it.  Have you listened to the recording of the virtual recording on this site "the Ping-Pong effect"??  It made me realise it was my job to end this situation, because my husband just couldn't do it himself.

I think it has finally sunk in that I really mean it.  He kept asking me what I wanted and I just kept repeating it was over and he needs to leave.  I think he was and still is hoping I will change my mind.  We haven't told the children yet because we are waiting for him to find somewhere to move to.  That way, when we tell the children, we will be able to explain where he will be living and that they will be able to stay there sometimes, with Daddy.

This is not the ending I wanted or expected......I really believed we were making progress.  My husband has reacted quite badly and is being stubborn, angry and defensive (and very childish)  He is angry that I get to stay in the house and he has to move out, that he will have no money, that it's not what he wants and keeps pointing out it's what I have decided.  If I felt I was left with a choice it wouldn't be this, but I no longer feel I have a choice.  All the time I kept taking him back he had it all and was very comfortable with the situation.  Now everyone will get to find out what he has really been doing for the last 2.5 years and he doesn't like it one bit.

I don't think he is sad about loosing me.........he certainly hasn't shown it.  But maybe that will come later, when he has moved out and he starts realising what he has lost.  I always had a feeling he would never "wake up" until he was made to leave.  I almost wish I had done it sooner but it had to feel right for me and now it does.  Because we have been going to counselling for 5 months and he has continued to lie the whole time, it's the proof I need that he doesn't want to change and doesn't want to end his affair.  I know I have done everything I could to save our marriage and I will have no regrets. I won't be left wondering what if I had tried this...........or that.......I have tried everything.

I have been to see someone for legal advice on where I stand now.......obviously I can't evict my husband from his own home, so I have to wait until he has calmed down enough to start making some decisions about where he can go.  I think he is stalling, saying he won't be able to afford it etc. This situation could now go on for a long time, waiting for him to move out.  But it won't make me change my mind.  I just can't live that other life anymore.


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UrbanExplorer
violet wrote:
Doing this has made the OW research me, my family and closest friends on FB- why? If she is so secure?


As a WS who was the OW with respect to my former AP's marriage, yes, I think the OW is often jealous of and insecure about the BS. After all, the BS has all of the history, family connections, and access. The WS is often going to choose the BS over the OW, ultimately.

There was a time after my affair came to light that former AP was reconciling with his wife, and I used to look at what she posted on social media (outings with him and romantic things between them) and feel absolutely awful inside. I eventually blocked her for both of our benefit. It wasn't healthy.
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violet
Thanks UrbanExplorer, My husband and I are not friends on FB. I have a feeling she has his password... I was just confused why she would dare to add me, my mother,sister, aunts, close friends in a unsuspecting account of her newly opened (now closed) salon. In fairness my husband has changed positively here at home and maybe she saw some changes also on their relationship that she didn't like.. I had to just block her because I was not comfortable of her having access to my pictures. Thanks for confirming that she is insecure- makes me feel better. Can you tell me your story pls.?
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violet
" The WS is often going to choose the BS over the OW, ultimately. "

UrbanExplorer, I sound insecure too but regarding your quote above- Is this really true statistically? Did you have this at the back of your mind while you were the OW or were you thinking that you can really break the marriage because your love was different? Why do you think the CS would
choose the BS in the end? please expound.
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Guiltguilt
When I was confronted the second time by her BS, he called me scum among other things. At that moment, I saw my wife, my family and what the hell was I doing? I sent the email finishing it, got a nasty one back, which I expected and deserved, and I set about recommitting to our marriage, working to make things better, to appreciate what had almost been lost, and to sweep the affair so far under the carpet it would never be seen again. Subsequently, Dday was 3 months later. I know the choice I made, for all the reasons Urban said. That jolt from the fog was enough.
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UrbanExplorer
violet wrote:
" The WS is often going to choose the BS over the OW, ultimately. "

UrbanExplorer, I sound insecure too but regarding your quote above- Is this really true statistically? Did you have this at the back of your mind while you were the OW or were you thinking that you can really break the marriage because your love was different? Why do you think the CS would
choose the BS in the end? please expound.


I am thinking about how statistically few affair partners end up together and about an article I read stating that 2/3 to 3/4 of couples stay together after infidelity. I think it is hard to decide to break up a long shared life together unless a couple truly cannot stop fighting and hurting each other.

For instance http://www.divorcemag.com/articles/frequently-asked-questions-about-infidelity

I thought my AP's marriage was extremely shaky and unhealthy before I met him, and indeed, his wife did decide after a brief reconciliation to divorce him. I felt he and I would have been a decent match had we met in a conventional way when single but that there was little chance for us after beginning as an affair because 1.) no one would ever accept us as a couple and 2.) I carry so much guilt about how we hurt others.
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UrbanExplorer
violet wrote:
Thanks UrbanExplorer, My husband and I are not friends on FB. I have a feeling she has his password... I was just confused why she would dare to add me, my mother,sister, aunts, close friends in a unsuspecting account of her newly opened (now closed) salon. In fairness my husband has changed positively here at home and maybe she saw some changes also on their relationship that she didn't like.. I had to just block her because I was not comfortable of her having access to my pictures. Thanks for confirming that she is insecure- makes me feel better. Can you tell me your story pls.?


My story is that I had a friendship turned emotional and physical affair with an also married man who had kids at the same school as mine. It lasted about 8 months before his wife did some computer sleuthing and uncovered it and confronted me, leading to DDay in both houses. It has since gone way, WAY public and entered the legal realm, and his wife initiated an acrimonious divorce against him.

I never moved out of my house because we have young kids together, and my husband (20.5 years together) is willing to work on the marriage, but our future is uncertain 5 months after DDay. We are in individual counseling and discernment counseling. Discernment has improved things because we are not "allowed" to confront or pressure each other outside of the therapist'so office, and we both have to own our part in bringing the relationship to this point (i.e. not only my affair, although that is certainly my biggest part to own) so we can decide what would need to happen to take one path or another. No matter what happens, we are moving from where we live now and changing the kids' school.

I definitely did not anticipate how bad the fallout of the affair would be, but I was in a multi-year fog of resentment about my marriage at that time.
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UrbanExplorer
Guiltguilt wrote:
When I was confronted the second time by her BS, he called me scum among other things. At that moment, I saw my wife, my family and what the hell was I doing? I sent the email finishing it, got a nasty one back, which I expected and deserved, and I set about recommitting to our marriage, working to make things better, to appreciate what had almost been lost, and to sweep the affair so far under the carpet it would never be seen again. Subsequently, Dday was 3 months later. I know the choice I made, for all the reasons Urban said. That jolt from the fog was enough.


I am impressed you knew right away you wanted to recommit. I felt I should recommit, but it was an obligation more than a genuine feeling of love and remorse.
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Guiltguilt
That jolt was enough to see the good in my wife, rather than the rewritten story I'd come up with.... and the prospect of the hurt, the mess, all of which happened anyway.
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