JKoloseik
Just a couple questions.

Do affairs cause PTSD? Or does there need to be an already-underlying issue of anxiety? I'm mostly curious about your answers. I've had two different specialists suggest I may have been struggling with PTSD most my life. So, I plan to talk to my doctor a bit more about it.

My other question is, does affair fog only occur with the betrayer or both or all parties involved? And if the betrayer doesn't address it, is that why my WS is having so many online relapses; or should I assume he's been involved with porn and online female attention long before me?

Thanks!
Female BS 
DD 10/16/16
WS multiple relapses
Physical affair, emotional affairs, online affairs
In-house separation 06/11/18
Complete separation 01/04/20
Last relapse 01/07/20
Don't be afraid. Don't be dismayed. The battle belongs to the Lord.
2 Ch. 20:15
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Blessedby7
I absolutely,100% believe affairs cause PTSD.  Anything that causes trauma does, really, and affairs cause a lot of trauma. I considered myself a pretty emotionally happy, healthy person before this. Sure, I had my moments, even moments of PTSD from something else that has happened in my life, but nothing has affected me like this has. 

I also am starting to believe that both partners can have a sort of affair fog as well. I know I've sort of gone through it, though I've been struggling to put it into words for the past couple of weeks. 
Female BS
Dday 10/12/2018

Renewing myself one day at a time. 
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Keepabuzz
I am 100% certain that affair trauma can cause PTSD. I’m ex-military. I have been out for years, but I didn’t get PTSD there. Up until my wife’s affair I was always a well adjusted, emotionally stable guy with absolutely ZERO history of even a hint of mental health or emotional issues. After my wife’s affair I became deeply depressed, came very close on numerous occasions to making that “final decision”, had panic attacks, anxiety issues, sleeping issues, etc.  I am no longer depressed, and haven’t had a panic attack for a few years, but I still struggle with Anxiety issues at times. I carry anxiety meds on my person. I now hate being anywhere crowded. If I find myself in a crowded space, it will almost guarantee and anxiety attack. An unexpected loud noise can trigger one as well. I hate surprises now. Like seriously hate them. They make me very angry. I hope all that goes away at some point, but coming up on 5 years, it seems unlikely. The rest of the PTSD symptoms slowly went away though. My Wife is aware of all of this, and is very remorseful because she knows that she owns every bit of it. She does as best she can to help me manage it. Getting me out of unexpected crowded places. Ensuring I’m not surprised by anything, and sometimes “taking one or two on the chin”, verbally of course, if I’m really wound up. In those times I can be extremely short with her. 
Male BS, D-day July 2015, trying to stay out of the dark.....
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anthro
It sure does cause ptsd. 
Formerly known as Anthropoidape... male bs, long affair, d-day Feb 2017.
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surviving
PTSD symptoms - Anger, depression, anxiety, intrusive thoughts or memories, flashbacks, fatigue, nightmares, loss of concentration, increased startle, hypervigilance, avoidance, isolation, emotional numbing, lack of trust, and suicidal thoughts may all indicate the presence of PTSD.  I have had and still have some PTSD symptoms.  I am over six years from DDay and some of these still exist in me.  Of course, they happen/exist much less than they did on DDay, but they show up now and then.  So, yes, affairs can cause PTSD.
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Sadie
My first experience with ptsd was once I discovered the A, so yes, it is very real.    
     I was in the fog for about a year after WH’s affair.    I foolishly believed it was over when he said it was and that we were finding a way to recover and reconcile.   Then the fog lifted and I discovered he was still in contact with her.   
        Gently, is it really a relapse, or is it continued wayward behavior/the fog?   Mine, too, thought that online porn was “no big deal”.   I called it a continuation of the A, because it is.   I refused to attempt to reconcile till he stopped the online porn as well as the A, as he was not a safe partner for me.    It was still a betrayal.
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JKoloseik
I once read a medical article that said PTSD is basically incurable. That symptoms may lessen, but that the original trauma is so severe it changed the limbic system. The article described that the only true way to cure it is to reset the limbic system back to health. Which is very difficult to do. 

How many of you are on anxiety meds? I too carry them with me. My WH has actually mocked me about my panic attacks and anxiety meds. I understand that he is projecting his shame; he doesn't see just how damaging his words and actions are. He doesn't see that his depth of denial is perpetuating my symptoms. 

Now that we're separated, the fog is lifting. I guess I didn't realize just how much I was repressing and ignoring. I'm remembering things that I had not noticed. I downplayed so much. I knew something was very wrong, but I was trying so hard to get myself back to normal that I fooled myself into ignoring the fact that as long as he was around, normal could not exist. 

I don't call my family. I isolate myself. I avoid social activities. The nightmares were agonizing. The panic attacks made me feel ashamed and very alone. Angry outbursts came out of nowhere, so did the tears. I teetered between hypervigilance and exhaustion. Life was just so much easier in bed. I miss my laughter. I miss my smile. I miss me.
Female BS 
DD 10/16/16
WS multiple relapses
Physical affair, emotional affairs, online affairs
In-house separation 06/11/18
Complete separation 01/04/20
Last relapse 01/07/20
Don't be afraid. Don't be dismayed. The battle belongs to the Lord.
2 Ch. 20:15
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Crushed
I too finally drew the line and asked him to leave.  I really think that I do better without him.  I still have anxiety and that's when i text him.  I have to learn to stop that.  Its always a fight.  But i see all the things that i just endured to make it work now that he is gone.  I refuse to accept any of that now.  It is either going to be my way or no way.  He is going to have to grow up and be a responsible dependable faithful adult or i have no choice but to divorce him.
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JKoloseik
Crushed wrote:
I too finally drew the line and asked him to leave.  I really think that I do better without him.  I still have anxiety and that's when i text him.  I have to learn to stop that.  Its always a fight.  But i see all the things that i just endured to make it work now that he is gone.  I refuse to accept any of that now.  It is either going to be my way or no way.  He is going to have to grow up and be a responsible dependable faithful adult or i have no choice but to divorce him.


Those could be my words. Except he's the one who left... he "wanted to get healthy for us." Another lie. He was tying to connect with women online again. But the pressure was too much so he left. He nearly had me believing it was my fault too. But now that he's gone, and after learning the true reason he left, I see things more clearly. You know, when he was around, he was so darned good at keeping me trapped in confusion... well, I heard a term yesterday that I can't get out of my head: manipulative dominance. Just a stupid term I heard on a tv show. I nearly missed it. It was odd, like five seconds later I'm thinking "Wait, what'd he just say?" And I turned it off and looked at the wall for what seemed like forever, cuz I couldn't release the hold that term had on me. Almost like someone opened the blinds and I could suddenly see something that had always been there. 
Female BS 
DD 10/16/16
WS multiple relapses
Physical affair, emotional affairs, online affairs
In-house separation 06/11/18
Complete separation 01/04/20
Last relapse 01/07/20
Don't be afraid. Don't be dismayed. The battle belongs to the Lord.
2 Ch. 20:15
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anthro

JKoloseik wrote:
I once read a medical article that said PTSD is basically incurable. That symptoms may lessen, but that the original trauma is so severe it changed the limbic system. The article described that the only true way to cure it is to reset the limbic system back to health. Which is very difficult to do.


There is good evidence for benefits from cognitive behavioural therapy and people report good results from EMDR as well. Our understanding of PTSD began properly with soldiers returning from Vietnam and there has been a lot of work on it since the 1970s. 

See https://www.apa.org/ptsd-guideline/treatments/index for treatments with a basis in evidence. Another interesting point is that it is apparently easier to recover from trauma experienced in adulthood than from childhood trauma.

Whether benefits = "cure" i don't know. I am certainly still affected now approaching 3 years since d-day, but that's without any treatment. 

I have had relatives who were adversely affected by antidepressants and anti anxiety medications. We have some close relatives (in laws) who as young teens lost their father. They were both prescribed antidepressants but one of them had a severe adverse reaction and so stopped taking them. Now, a good twenty years later, the one who stopped taking them is a vibrant woman and her brother, who never stopped taking them, is a nice guy but also kind of a zombie. We noticed his zombie qualities, that he is kind of weird and flat, "blunt" if that makes sense, long before we knew anything about their medical history. It's an incredibly strong difference but of course could be more than just the medication difference.

I absolutely don't criticise anyone who takes this kind of medication and I am 100% certain it saves lives, however if you can minimise it and see it as short-term I think that is a safer plan. But I am no doctor.

Formerly known as Anthropoidape... male bs, long affair, d-day Feb 2017.
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anthro
JKoloseik wrote:
My WH has actually mocked me about my panic attacks and anxiety meds.


I would guess that "negging" is just a big part of how he conducts all his relationships. 
Formerly known as Anthropoidape... male bs, long affair, d-day Feb 2017.
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JKoloseik
anthro wrote:


I would guess that "negging" is just a big part of how he conducts all his relationships. 


I'm trying so hard to learn as much as I can so I'm less naive and manipulatable. What is negging?
Female BS 
DD 10/16/16
WS multiple relapses
Physical affair, emotional affairs, online affairs
In-house separation 06/11/18
Complete separation 01/04/20
Last relapse 01/07/20
Don't be afraid. Don't be dismayed. The battle belongs to the Lord.
2 Ch. 20:15
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JKoloseik
JKoloseik wrote:


I'm trying so hard to learn as much as I can so I'm less naive and manipulatable. What is negging?


I just googled it.

"A neg is a backhanded compliment, usually said by a man to a woman, to surprise and/or annoy her so she does a double take and tries to prove her value to the man."

That's horrible! I mean, it sounds so intentional. Up until lately, I've always suspected he's unaware of how cruel he is; you know, like all of this is how he learned to cope with life or something--fight, fold, or flight. Just improper survival mechanisms from an unhealthy past, you know? But negging? How can that be a subconscious thing? I can't wrap my head around it. Like that term that clung to my head, manipulative dominance. Negging. I mean, that sounds so narcissistic or sociopathic, not unhealthy coping skills. Am I that blind? I'm so scared of my own perceptions! It's so hard to realize and accept that my biggest enemy right now is me! Who do I trust. Who do I believe. Definitely not him, and most definitely not myself. I feel so alone and so afraid. 
Female BS 
DD 10/16/16
WS multiple relapses
Physical affair, emotional affairs, online affairs
In-house separation 06/11/18
Complete separation 01/04/20
Last relapse 01/07/20
Don't be afraid. Don't be dismayed. The battle belongs to the Lord.
2 Ch. 20:15
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ThrivenotSurvive
I know it is hard but your strength will come from focusing on YOU.  Rebuilding YOU.  Trying to figure out his neurosis keeps you focused on him - whom you have no control over.  Think of him as a nut allergy that could kill you.  Do you have to understand the mechanics of exactly how all the science works?  Or do you need to know all the foods to avoid and the tools to have to save yourself if you go into anaphylactic shock?  

Later it may help you to review his actions/reactions/manipulations more - and the reasons behind them.  But whether they are intentional or subconscious is a moot point right now.  He doesn't seem ready to do anything significant about changing them and they are still producing the same reaction in you.  

I really think you could benefit from committing to a solid 6 months (preferably more like a year) away from him, going to therapy (for you) and reading everything you can about building healthy self-value in the aftermath of trauma.  Practicing it until it starts to create new neural pathways.  And committing to at least that long apart REGARDLESS of what he is or isn't doing.  I think you will find that you will miss him in the way we all miss an addiction... but as your own fog clears you will find that it lessens and lessens, until there is a day that it is hard to remember why you were so willing to live with his drama.  But until you get off this roller coaster you won't have the energy to do what really needs to be done for your own healing.  You need to learn the skills and methods to quiet your own limbic system and slowly rebuild your trust in your own perceptions.  Until you have really done this  - you will not be safe around him.  Because he's good at manipulation (whatever the motivations) and YOU aren't firmly rooted in who you are and what you can/cannot accept with the strength to follow thru.  

Look - if he surprises the heck out of us all and actually uses that time to begin the process of real change, then you can decide what you want to do about that then.  (Though I have severe doubts about that.) Just remember that for someone with his ingrained behaviors and history it is going to take a lot longer than 6 months to make meaningful change.  
BS - Female
Married 27 years, one adult child
DD May 2016

“When we are no longer able to change a situation, we are challenged to change ourselves.” - V Frankl
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JKoloseik
I know it is hard but your strength will come from focusing on YOU.  Rebuilding YOU.  Trying to figure out his neurosis keeps you focused on him - whom you have no control over.  Think of him as a nut allergy that could kill you.  Do you have to understand the mechanics of exactly how all the science works?  Or do you need to know all the foods to avoid and the tools to have to save yourself if you go into anaphylactic shock?  

Later it may help you to review his actions/reactions/manipulations more - and the reasons behind them.  But whether they are intentional or subconscious is a moot point right now.  He doesn't seem ready to do anything significant about changing them and they are still producing the same reaction in you.  

I really think you could benefit from committing to a solid 6 months (preferably more like a year) away from him, going to therapy (for you) and reading everything you can about building healthy self-value in the aftermath of trauma.  Practicing it until it starts to create new neural pathways.  And committing to at least that long apart REGARDLESS of what he is or isn't doing.  I think you will find that you will miss him in the way we all miss an addiction... but as your own fog clears you will find that it lessens and lessens, until there is a day that it is hard to remember why you were so willing to live with his drama.  But until you get off this roller coaster you won't have the energy to do what really needs to be done for your own healing.  You need to learn the skills and methods to quiet your own limbic system and slowly rebuild your trust in your own perceptions.  Until you have really done this  - you will not be safe around him.  Because he's good at manipulation (whatever the motivations) and YOU aren't firmly rooted in who you are and what you can/cannot accept with the strength to follow thru.  

Look - if he surprises the heck out of us all and actually uses that time to begin the process of real change, then you can decide what you want to do about that then.  (Though I have severe doubts about that.) Just remember that for someone with his ingrained behaviors and history it is going to take a lot longer than 6 months to make meaningful change.  


Wow. That's good stuff. Difficult, grisly, but true. It's like you put all my research into a neat little box for me to understand. 
Female BS 
DD 10/16/16
WS multiple relapses
Physical affair, emotional affairs, online affairs
In-house separation 06/11/18
Complete separation 01/04/20
Last relapse 01/07/20
Don't be afraid. Don't be dismayed. The battle belongs to the Lord.
2 Ch. 20:15
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