neslon
I was listening to a podcast by Tim/Sharon yesterday and something I think Sharon said really made me stop and think -Justice rarely exists.  

I have been thinking about this for the last day and truly agree with it.  Many of us with tight boundaries really want to believe justice is possible.  This summer we experienced the death of a daughter of friends of ours.  She was killed in a domestic abuse situation.  The boyfriend was immediately arrested but will there be justice?  Likely not as she can't return to life.  No punishment brings their daughter back.

I know from one of the many books I read on forgiveness that Justice and Vengeance are tripping points for forgiveness.  I have decided that vengeance is silly against your spouse if you truly want to reconcile as it would be harder.  Vengeance against the OW would change how I see myself so I'm not willing to demean myself for that power plus it wouldn't feel good.  Justice I think is a bit harder for me but truly what could be done where I would feel a sense of justice?  Likely nothing.

Anyone else have thoughts on this?  
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UrbanExplorer
It was a good podcast. I have thought the same thing about my friend's murder. There won't be justice even if her killer is caught.

A sense of justice can definitely interfere with grace and forgiveness in relationships and act as a wall to intimacy.
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Linda
There is a saying that Justice is merely a goal to which law and nature aspire.  Rings true for me, not sure there really is any one concept of justice; but if there is one for me, it is having to truly and honestly apprise your actions and live on with that truth, no manipulations or excuses.  If that type of justice can be had from a spouse, then a relationship might be salvagable.  Not seeing how it could be salvaged in the absence of such honesty though.
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UrbanExplorer
I think in relationships, long-term scorekeeping is a death knell. At some point, you both work together, or else you deem it irreconcilable and move on to something healthier.

I also don't believe people get what they deserve in life. So I guess I am a justice skeptic.
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neslon
I agree on the scorekeeping to being death.  I was not dealing well with forgiveness at points in our marriage and couldn't get over the moments which lead to resentment and suddenly the 4 horsemen of John Gottman were sitting at our kitchen table with us.  It wasn't just me as he had invited the horsemen too.  I think we some how crossed from being on the same team to opponents and I am not sure when/how we were able to get there.

I think justice for the victim/family is almost impossible.  Justice or self-shame I think exists but so difficult to see for others.  Like my friend's daughter and your best friend though...I'm not sure the perpetrators of crimes like that even feel shame.
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aliasbsmith
I heard once that Justice is getting what you deserve.(i.e. death penalty for adultery in an extreme legal system)  Grace is getting what you don't deserve. (i.e. love, forgiveness, trust, respect, acceptance)

Suffice it to say, Grace is divine. It's available for us to receive and pass on to others.
Justice is also divine. All will stand before the ultimate judge. Our legal systems established on earth aspire (sometimes) to establish justice the best they can for public safety, as they should. On the personal level, I don't think Justice is a realistic goal and I'm not sure it's in an individual person's realm of responsibility. (i.e. it's up to the state to punish murder, not the individual)

I'm trying to receive and give grace. I'm so flawed, however, I put up internal roadblocks to this end sometimes. I think the key to success in this attempt is to focus on perfect Grace and Forgiveness of God and hope it rubs off on me.
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Scuffy
On this subject, I direct you to Milan Kundera:

Most people deceive themselves with a pair of faiths: they believe in eternal memory (of people, things, deeds, nations) and in redressibility (of deeds, mistakes, sins, wrongs). Both are false faiths. In reality the opposite is true: everything will be forgotten and nothing will be redressed. 
 And, for a chuckle, to Steve Martin:

https://www.nytimes.com/books/first/m/martin-drivel.html
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