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Dinomus
Sorry to hear about that Thrown4aLoop - I hope that things improve and that you were able to do something nice for you this weekend.
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LadyFinn
My 2 cents worth ? ( but 1st,, I am sorry for the position you are in) . I apparently feel very VERY different from others on here. I believe emailing him regarding his mail is fine .. although he would have eventually been looking for tax stuff ( guessing). But any other suggestion, coffee, drinks etc., is not at all what I would do. I believe they see this as some weird "pressure" or availability on your part and truly.. why? If he truly wants to see you .. in his heart of hearts .. he will . Or HE WILL SUGGEST A COFEE ETC. Now that would feel entirely different , would it not?  And then I would politely refuse . I would say " oh , I am so sorry! Would love to have seen you but I have dinner plans  ( or whatever ). Maybe next time?? Bye Bye .  I would never ask him for anything , anytime , anywhere ...  He broke it and if he TRULY wants to fix it ... let HIM man-up and take a risk . Don't help him fix what he broke. Just my opinion...hope to not ever hurt anyones feelings .    Be "busy" living life mysteriously and unavailable .
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Guiltguilt
The 180. If he wants to reconcile, he'll see you doing well and reconsider.
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Kalmarjan
I feel like playing games isn't going to help here. The point of the 180 is to make a boundary, and stick to it, but it's not aimed at making someone do something in a passive aggressive manner. For example, it could bite you in the ass if you tell your cheating spouse that you already have dinner plans if they are reaching out to you to try and test the waters.

Perhaps a better way is to be up front. "Hey, I'm willing to entertain the thought of our relationship, but I'm not going to play games. If there is the OW or AP in the picture, it's not possible, and I won't waste my time."

That's not playing games, hard to get, or whatever. It's setting a boundary, and laying out a consequence of crossing it.

In the case of the tax thing. I would say meet in a neutral place to exchange the stuff, maybe an invitation for coffee if open to it, no strings attached.
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LadyFinn
Correct me if I am mistaken, but I understood that this husband is living in another state WITH his affair partner . So, in my opinion,if he initiates any interest or movement towards his marriage , HE IS PLAYING GAMES . That is unacceptable . I have seen countless wives suddenly become the OW!  The OW cannot exist in any way shape or form , otherwise he is still in a fog. And using some (if not all ) of the techniques on the 180 ...... (Do more then act as if you are moving on with your life; begin moving on with your life!
Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and independent.
Don't sit around waiting on your spouse - get busy, do things, go out with friends, enjoy old hobbies, find new ones! But stay busy!
...is more about "fake it till ya make it ".  This list takes practice and is very difficult and is frequently the opposite of what we want to do. This has zero to do with "passive aggressive behaviour ". ZERO  No wife , in her right mind , would say to a cheating spouse ..

Hey, I'm willing to entertain the thought of our relationship, but I'm not going to play games. , at a meeting to exchange mail. (????)
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Kalmarjan
LadyFinn wrote:
Correct me if I am mistaken, but I understood that this husband is living in another state WITH his affair partner . So, in my opinion,if he initiates any interest or movement towards his marriage , HE IS PLAYING GAMES . That is unacceptable . I have seen countless wives suddenly become the OW!  The OW cannot exist in any way shape or form , otherwise he is still in a fog. And using some (if not all ) of the techniques on the 180 ...... (Do more then act as if you are moving on with your life; begin moving on with your life!
Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and independent.
Don't sit around waiting on your spouse - get busy, do things, go out with friends, enjoy old hobbies, find new ones! But stay busy!
...is more about "fake it till ya make it ".  This list takes practice and is very difficult and is frequently the opposite of what we want to do. This has zero to do with "passive aggressive behaviour ". ZERO  No wife , in her right mind , would say to a cheating spouse ..

Hey, I'm willing to entertain the thought of our relationship, but I'm not going to play games. , at a meeting to exchange mail. (????)


I disagree.

I've seen countless times, read countless times, where a BS has implemented the 180, and laid out exactly what was said there.
Its about establishing a boundary. It's not said AT the meeting to exchange mail, it's said WAY before.

What you are saying is, to make it even simpler is...

I am willing to work to make this marriage work, but I won't expend any effort if you are seeing your affair partner. (This is the part about playing games.) you have to be 100% committed to OUR relationship ONLY before we can move forward.

I'm not sure why you think "no wife in their right mind would say to a cheating spouse" when it has been done countless times before.

To be clear. The 180 isn't about making anyone do anything. That's control. It's about moving on in a situation by doing things you can control. It's about setting and enforcing boundaries. It's NOT a punitive measure in order to punish your spouse (remember what I was saying about manipulation, passive aggressive behaviour and control?) but a measure of allowing you some semblance of control over yourself when faced with a situation that you have absolutely no control over (the actions of your cheating spouse.)

And to be even more clear? If your spouse has any intentions of coming back, or is entertaining the thought of coming back (which IS the case in a lot of situations, otherwise the WS wouldn't expend energy to see if the possibility is there) then setting up a boundary will PREVENT the situation you describe, where the BS becomes the OW. BOUNDARIES.

They are important.
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Scarlett
I think the point is the 180 should not be used as a way to get the WS to come back. It should be used as a way to deal with the horrible situation you've been dealt. The WS coming back after they see you can live without them is a side effect to the 180. Although I do believe this may work differently for male WS's than female WS's. Men typically like a challenge, whereas women like to see a man fight for her. I can see why it would bring a man back to the marriage, but I don't think it would bring a woman back to a marriage.
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TimT
Scarlett wrote:
...I can see why it would bring a man back to the marriage, but I don't think it would bring a woman back to a marriage.

It can. It does. Not every time, of course, but many of the same dynamics are at play when the betrayed husband focuses on his own healing and quits trying to save the marriage. The unfaithful spouse, man or woman, is then dealing with a much different scenario. Their questions and choices change. Often (not always) the result is a renewed interest in the marriage.
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Thrown4aLoop
I think one thing for everyone to consider is to not use the phrase Try the 180 when referring to implementing the 180. Using the words try or do makes it seem manipulative and that isn't or shouldn't be the true spirit of the 180. Like mentioned above, getting the spouse back is a byproduct of it not its purpose.

For us, betrayed spouses, taking care of ourselves and fixing our fixes is a way to move forward, to grow stronger. When the WS spouse isn't present or making a huge effort to work on the marriage, there is nothing you can do or say to change that. No magic words, no logical arguments...

Focusing on the WS and what they did wrong and putting all our energy into trying to fix the marriage is a great way to find yourself sitting in the pain and anger. I want to feel better, be better, I don't want this to define me anymore or god forbid color the way I see the world, love or marriage...everyday I make my way towards that and I choose that for me, not for anyone else.

My marriage might be over but I got to take the lessons (a masters, really), painful as they were, and apply them. I didn't deserve this, none of us do, but I bet a lot of us might be able to look back and see where we didn't take as much care in the marriage or didn't truly protect it. It is something to be nurtured and cared for and continually connecting and communicating with your spouse takes vigilance. Those are going to be my take-aways.

Please note before I get yelled at...Nobody deserves this and adultery should never, ever be an option.
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