Vanessa
"Love is never wasted, for its value does not rest on reciprocity." C. S. Lewis

 "Cheating isn't just a selfish act.  People think they sell their souls when they sacrifice their integrity and honor.  But that would imply that the soul is separate from the person."  C. S. Lewis also wrote, "You don't have a soul, you are a soul.  You have a body.  This means only one thing for men in affairs: in betraying your significant other, you betray yourself and the essence of who you are."
So clearly, C.S. Lewis, is not a fan of affairs.  

I think most BS would agree that they did not feel they were loved during their spouse's affair.  So, was the love of the BS "wasted" because it was unreciprocated? Because it was based on a lie? Or was the joy of experiencing the love (as we felt it when we were blissfully in the dark) its own reward?

Any thoughts?
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Kalmarjan
I think C.S. Lewis had it right.

Ironically, when I had my affair, my love for my wife was not gone, just overpowered by my selfishness, and heightened excitement (and thrill of getting an ego boost that a younger woman would ever see anything in me.) 

I lost part of myself, and destroyed what we had, and had to work damn hard to build something from that wreckage. 

The only silver lining is that I now understand myself, my boundaries, and what and how it happened, so we are able to build something that is better than what we had before. 
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anthropoidape
Kalmarjan wrote:
Ironically, when I had my affair, my love for my wife was not gone, just overpowered by my selfishness, and heightened excitement (and thrill of getting an ego boost that a younger woman would ever see anything in me.) 


I think my wife would probably make a similar claim. To be totally honest, I feel it's a bit of history rewriting and while it sounds lofty it doesn't bear scrutiny. Love is made up of actions. Your love is not some buried thkng, it's what you do and how you live. You wouldn't (I assume) say, "Ironically I was always an honest person during my affair, it's just that my honesty was overpowered by my selfishness". If you were deceiving then by definition you were not honest. If you are cheating on your wife then by definition you are not loving her.

"It's funny I am not a violent guy at all but while I was beating my wife my anger overpowered my peaceful nature." This just doesn't work for me. Your actions at the time tell the true story, not your retrospective retelling of your inner life story. 

I'm not trying to insult you, and your take is just as valid as mine no doubt, but that's my perspective for what it is worth. 
Maybe it is okay, maybe it will be okay.

BS, d-day Feb 2017, 16 mth affair.
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anthropoidape
Vanessa wrote:
"Love is never wasted, for its value does not rest on reciprocity." C. S. Lewis


This is nice and perhaps often right. I don't think it is always right though. Love given to a cheating spouse is being stolen by that spouse.

I think of it like charity. I had some old clothes, too small for me now but in great condition. So I advertised them on an online charity group for someone in need. This lady came and collected them, a couple of large garbage bags worth. I later learned she had only planned to sell them on ebay then decided it wasn't worth the trouble and had thrown them away. So someone who could have used those clothes missed out and the good stuff was simply wasted. 

Charity is never wasted, in theory. But in this case what I thought was charity was actually just wasted, it was given to someone who didn't value it for what it was and abused my giving and trusting nature. Love given to a WS during an affair is like that. The stealing of it, the deceit and failure to value it turn it into something else. 
Maybe it is okay, maybe it will be okay.

BS, d-day Feb 2017, 16 mth affair.
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Keepabuzz
Perfectly put Anthro, as usual!
Male BS, D-day July 2015, trying to stay out of the dark.....
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Sorry
I remember after the affair, my husband asked me if I had "loved" my affair partner and I replied with the bilical quote about "love is patient, love is kind, love is..." and then concluded that I definitely did not love my affair partner.

That affair love was more self serving and pretty messed up, it definitely was not patient and it definitely fell into the evil category. It was not love.

I think post affair I have learned more about "true" love from my husband behaviour post affair. His love was real love, not because he was a doormat who got all walked over, and still loved me but because His love had substance.

I am forever greatful for the love he continued to give me both during and after the affair. I would like to think that with what I have learned I would be able to return the same kind of love if the tables were ever turned.
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BorealJ


I think my wife would probably make a similar claim. To be totally honest, I feel it's a bit of history rewriting and while it sounds lofty it doesn't bear scrutiny. Love is made up of actions. Your love is not some buried thkng, it's what you do and how you live. You wouldn't (I assume) say, "Ironically I was always an honest person during my affair, it's just that my honesty was overpowered by my selfishness". If you were deceiving then by definition you were not honest. If you are cheating on your wife then by definition you are not loving her.

"It's funny I am not a violent guy at all but while I was beating my wife my anger overpowered my peaceful nature." This just doesn't work for me. Your actions at the time tell the true story, not your retrospective retelling of your inner life story. 

I'm not trying to insult you, and your take is just as valid as mine no doubt, but that's my perspective for what it is worth. 
One thing I would challenge about this analogy is that honesty and violence are indeed acts, while love is an emotion.  Love moves people differently.  For those who have relatively healthy minds, love moves them to those they love with acts of kindness and affection.  For some, who are less mentally healthy, experiencing the emotion of love may cause them to move differently.  I imagine for some, loving others is threatening.  It ties them to something and that makes them think about their own insecurities.  Yoda would have been a crappy counselor, because he would have taught his clients to numb themselves, but there is validity to the idea that "love leads to fear, fear leads to hate, hate leads to suffering" for many people.  I think even you expressed recently that you love your wife, but that love doesn't bring you joy anymore. 
For me, I love my kids more than I could ever imagine possible.  But my love for them over the last 16 months has caused fear and anxiety in me.  And when I'm at my most anxious, I act unfairly toward them.  I have little patience and when my patience is tried, I download my pain on them by yelling and acting out.  It's unfair to them and it causes hurt and probably a sense of insecurity and while I'm doing it I become aware of it and it breaks my heart.  I would accept your judgement of my actions as damaging and hurtful to my kids, but if you pretended to know my emotions and told me that I don't love my kids, I would be very angry. 
If your wife says that she loved you during her affair, it's fair to question why she acted the way she did, question what the other associated emotions were,and even express that you don't accept her love in that time, but if you dismiss her own emotional experience and express to her that you know better about what she was feeling than she does, I don't think you are opening the door to honesty and cooperation in your marriage.
I'd like to ask Kalmarjan, when you loved your wife (most especially in the immediate time before your affair), what other associated emotions did you experience that you think were related to your affair behaviour?
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Kalmarjan


I think my wife would probably make a similar claim. To be totally honest, I feel it's a bit of history rewriting and while it sounds lofty it doesn't bear scrutiny. Love is made up of actions. Your love is not some buried thkng, it's what you do and how you live. You wouldn't (I assume) say, "Ironically I was always an honest person during my affair, it's just that my honesty was overpowered by my selfishness". If you were deceiving then by definition you were not honest. If you are cheating on your wife then by definition you are not loving her.

"It's funny I am not a violent guy at all but while I was beating my wife my anger overpowered my peaceful nature." This just doesn't work for me. Your actions at the time tell the true story, not your retrospective retelling of your inner life story. 

I'm not trying to insult you, and your take is just as valid as mine no doubt, but that's my perspective for what it is worth. 


I take no offence at all. 

It doesn't bother me because I did the work to change what needed to be changed to ensure it would never happen again. 

Love is a verb. People think it's this "thing" you have that sticks around, but what I came to find was that yes, while I was in that affair, I wasn't loving my wife, but yes, I did love her. 

The problem came from being wrapped up in myself, and like I said, losing myself to the affair, and the excitement of it all. 

When D-Day came about, the last thing I wanted was to lose my wife completely, so I tried my hardest to make everything "right", in a vain effort to not lose my wife as at least a friend. It's hard to explain, except to say that even though I was in that affair, I still loved nlmy wife, but had to invent reasons for me to be pissed at her to justify to myself what I was doing was somehow "okay."

It's messy, and complicated, and it took me a few years to really understand what the heck happened. I was the last guy I thought would ever cheat, but it was the lack of self awareness, lack of boundaries that brought me to where I willingly cheated on my best friend, confidant, and the love of my life. 

My main point here is that it isn't as easy as you're trying to make it out to be. Cheating/affair is not a simple "on/off" switch, or a compartment you can put their actions into to judge as to what a person thinks or feels. 

I stand by my statement. Even though I was in an affair, I still loved my wife. I couldn't bear hurting her, and I lied, cheated, and did everything I could to hide it from her, but i also didn't stop doing the affair, even if it was killing my relationship with my wife, because I also had this notion that I had met my "soulmate," who just "got me." 

I believe that being a WS isn't simple, because you have to also remember there's a person behind those actions, as infuriating as they are, they may have reasons that they use to justify their actions to themselves.
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Sisu21


I think my wife would probably make a similar claim. To be totally honest, I feel it's a bit of history rewriting and while it sounds lofty it doesn't bear scrutiny. Love is made up of actions. Your love is not some buried thkng, it's what you do and how you live. You wouldn't (I assume) say, "Ironically I was always an honest person during my affair, it's just that my honesty was overpowered by my selfishness". If you were deceiving then by definition you were not honest. If you are cheating on your wife then by definition you are not loving her.

"It's funny I am not a violent guy at all but while I was beating my wife my anger overpowered my peaceful nature." This just doesn't work for me. Your actions at the time tell the true story, not your retrospective retelling of your inner life story. 

I'm not trying to insult you, and your take is just as valid as mine no doubt, but that's my perspective for what it is worth. 


This is an absolutely BRILLIANT perspective, especially the last example.  Thank you! 
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MC
Vanessa wrote:
"Love is never wasted, for its value does not rest on reciprocity." C. S. Lewis

 "Cheating isn't just a selfish act.  People think they sell their souls when they sacrifice their integrity and honor.  But that would imply that the soul is separate from the person."  C. S. Lewis also wrote, "You don't have a soul, you are a soul.  You have a body.  This means only one thing for men in affairs: in betraying your significant other, you betray yourself and the essence of who you are."
So clearly, C.S. Lewis, is not a fan of affairs.  

I think most BS would agree that they did not feel they were loved during their spouse's affair.  So, was the love of the BS "wasted" because it was unreciprocated? Because it was based on a lie? Or was the joy of experiencing the love (as we felt it when we were blissfully in the dark) its own reward?

Any thoughts?


Wow, this is a really thought provoking quote for me as a BS to consider.  Let's assume that C.S. Lewis is correct, "Love is never wasted, for its value does not rest on reciprocity."

So based on that quote, as a BS, the love that I gave my WS during her affair was not wasted.  Wow, that's hard to accept.  My love for her as I maintained my vow of fidelity HAD to be different in value than her love for me as she broke her vow.  Right? 

BUT, she did an outstanding job of keeping the wool over my eyes.  I did feel loved.  As her 18 week affair persisted from late October 2016 through mid February 2017, I can point to several instances where I really felt loved.  There are specific events, not the least of which were our oldest son's birthday, Thanksgiving, a family trip to the mountains for a long weekend in a cabin, Our 11th wedding anniversary, Christmas, New Years, college football bowl season which we enjoy together, Valentine's Day, my Birthday, her Birthday.  In all of these events I loved her and I felt like she loved me.

Our Christmas card that year had one of the most wonderful family pictures of my Wife, myself and our two young sons.  We had taken it on a creek in a beautiful setting on our family trip to a mountain cabin.  I have a hard time looking at that picture now.  Looking at all of our smiles, maybe especially hers, or maybe especially mine. 

Was my love for her wasted?  Maybe not.  I loved her genuinely as unbeknownst to me she betrayed me, herself and our family.    

Was my love reciprocated during those 18 months?  Maybe not.  Even though I was fooled into thinking that it was.  
________________
Male BS, 3.15.2017

Taking care of myself, as we all deserve to do.
Encouraging all to bolster their: Emotional Health, Physical Health and Spiritual Health
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