Crushed
A true sign of remorse is no more lies not even small ones.  No more defensiveness.  Is this asking to much?  Just had huge meltdown because of one small lie.  He told me that he was taking off early today to mow yard.  I said ok,  you took off early yesterday too.  He then went into no he didnt defense mode.  Not that he told me he was going to take off early but he came to where i work to get paperwork he needed and i knew by the time he had took off.  After quite a fight about him lying about taking off early he finally admitted that he had but only 15 minutes and he did not consider that early.  After 20 minutes of agrueing he said he was sorry but I really am tired of the oh I'm sorry lets just forget it now. It was really no big deal until he had to lie about it and then defend and justify his actions of lying.  This raises all kind of triggers for me.  If he wants to lie about such a small thing that I figured out and was good with then there is no reason to ever trust.  I feel like I cant trust where he says he is or what he is doing  now. it's a breach of transparency and accountability to me.  Maybe  its just the ugly monster of insecurity raising its head.   I really dont think he cares at all how I feel.  I feel like such a idiot and a enabler to just keep letting him back into my life to hurt me more.  
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ThrivenotSurvive
I completely understand how you feel.  I told my husband that I had NO tolerance for ANY lies/half-truths/"oversights" anymore.  I explained that sometimes I worried that we'd go through all the pain and effort of reconciliation and I'd end up looking like a jerk when I left him three years in because he lied about how much he spent at the grocery store.  Sounds silly - but that is how low my tolerance is now.  He has used up his lifetime of oversights and/or "not being clear" - at least with me. 

i have repeated this several times when we were talking about personal fears - that I fear my tolerance is so low that even a TRULY accidental oversight might send me to divorce.  He seems to get it and has gone way out of his way for the past three years to tell me stuff - even when he isn't sure that I care or it matters.  But complete transparency on his part - about everything whether it is "sensitive" or not - has seemed to become a habit now.  And that has really begun to repair trust for us.  

So if there are any WS's reading this - Get good at being transparent about everything!  While it may make you feel like a pissed off teenager for a hot minute, you are going to find that it pays MASSIVE dividends in your attempts to reconcile with your spouse.  MASSIVE.  And when you see how much better it makes your life and theirs by helping to calm their fears - you won't regret doing it.
BS - Female
Married 27 years, one adult child
DD May 2016

“When we are no longer able to change a situation, we are challenged to change ourselves.” - V Frankl
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Skelling
Oh crushed, I know exactly how you feel. There were so many arguments around that and it took quite a few therapy sessions to get better. We had the very same issue just that he was 15min late and to him that was nothing to me, given what all happened and how he lied and sneaked, it was a huge deal. So we ended up arguing about the same issue. It took a lot of work to understand that he wasn't meaning to hurt me or that he didn't care he was just not considering how it would affect me. And thats where the issue was for me. I needed him to try and slip into my shoes but even more important was that he understood WHY it was triggering for me that even though to him it meant nothing, he could understand why it meant so much to me. It takes a lot of practice and patience. Validating my feelings were a huge part in starting to heal, and not only when it made sense to him but also, when to him it was absolutely bonkers but this is when I needed it the most. It wasn't about the 15minutes it was about feeling safe and him understanding that. I wasn't trying to be difficult or just waiting for an oportunity for him to mess up. I needed him to understand how I feel and WHY i felt that way and that it was because of HIS choices from the past.  It doesn't mean that everything is lost and it won't ever get better but it takes work and willingness from your husband to work with you. Best of luck and hugs to you.
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triplehooks
Zero tolerance...ZERO.  Implement consequences up to and including the removal of yourself from his life.  ZERO tolerance.  
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Crushed
I just dont understand how can he not see that it's not about the time he was off.  It is about lying about it.  His perception is that it was only a few minutes.  Mine is then why not say yes I took off a few minutes early.  It would have been fine.  Why lie.  Now I get that he will tell me every little detail of everything he does.  That is not what I want.  It is about how the lying made me feel.  I didnt think he was doing anything wrong and did not accuse him of anything but now i wonder after making it such a huge deal.  Is there any WS out there that can shed some light on this.
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Keepabuzz
I’m with triplehooks. Absolutely ZERO tolerance. I’m over 4 years out from d-day. If my wife lied or omitted pertinent information even now, I would divorce her as soon as possible. I told her exactly this “you will never get the benefit of the doubt again. I demand 100% transparency, 100% honesty, if I even think I’m not getting either of those, I’m out. You don’t even have to betray me, I will not play detective to get proof. If my gut says you’re lying. Then you’re lying. My gut will forever more outrank you and your words. It’s up to you to go the extra mile to ensure my gut doesn’t feel off. If it does, I’m out. No questions, no discussion, no conversation, no yelling, just gone. Gone in 5 minutes.  I have a plan, and I will keep that plan adjusted and in place until I divorce you, or die.  I can and will be gone like a ghost in under 5 minutes. It’s 100% on you”
Male BS, D-day July 2015, trying to stay out of the dark.....
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UrbanExplorer
I think the little lies/omissions (non-affair-related) aren't necessarily reflective of a lack of remorse but are part of the same personality pattern that allowed someone to get into an affair in the first place. Basically, it means the WS is afraid to open up and be real/vulnerable and risk angering or upsetting the BS and is instead trying to save face about something. It's a serious obstacle to rebuilding the relationship or really having any healthy relationship.
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ABurris105
I think the little lies/omissions (non-affair-related) aren't necessarily reflective of a lack of remorse but are part of the same personality pattern that allowed someone to get into an affair in the first place. Basically, it means the WS is afraid to open up and be real/vulnerable and risk angering or upsetting the BS and is instead trying to save face about something. It's a serious obstacle to rebuilding the relationship or really having any healthy relationship.


I agree that it is part of the personality pattern.  In my case, he knows it will anger me and he doesn’t want to deal with it.  That makes it super hard to rebuild trust because I believe that is at the root of our problem.  He still wants me to take blame for where we were and he says that is what led to his affair.  In counseling, I plan to address why I was like I was... the deeper reason goes back to him in the first place.  I was angry and controlling and fearful in reaction to his lying behavior to start with.  Do not blame me for your not wanting to deal with yourself or our relationship.  I fully believe that it would have been different if he would have been honest with me from the beginning and I fear now that if we don’t deal with it completely while we have this chance, we will find ourselves in the same spot down the road.  
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jasmine
UrbanExplorer is absolutely right. Lying is so ingrained. It’s like a default setting. I also find these trivial kinds of lies very triggering. I really have no idea why my husband has to lie, omit or obscure the truth over things that are of no consequence. I have found that each time this happens it undoes a little bit of the trust I have worked so hard to allow myself to feel. My husband doesn’t quite understand that trust-building is his responsibility, and that it’s not a personality flaw in me that I have found it difficult to trust. I DID trust him and he played that to his advantage. Trust means something different to me now. I can’t explain it but I’m never going to have that naïve childlike trust I once had. Perhaps that’s a good thing. I still haven’t worked out a healthier way to trust yet — a trust that is granted as a gift but that sometimes needs special care and attention. 
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UrbanExplorer
ABurris105 wrote:


I agree that it is part of the personality pattern.  In my case, he knows it will anger me and he doesn’t want to deal with it.  That makes it super hard to rebuild trust because I believe that is at the root of our problem.  He still wants me to take blame for where we were and he says that is what led to his affair.  In counseling, I plan to address why I was like I was... the deeper reason goes back to him in the first place.  I was angry and controlling and fearful in reaction to his lying behavior to start with.  Do not blame me for your not wanting to deal with yourself or our relationship.  I fully believe that it would have been different if he would have been honest with me from the beginning and I fear now that if we don’t deal with it completely while we have this chance, we will find ourselves in the same spot down the road.  


And the affair isn't your fault anyway. The marriage might have had real issues, but he responded by doing something subversive.
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ABurris105
Thanks Urban.  Absolutely right.  Someone on another thread commented that it wasn’t the problems in the marriage that caused the affair, but the affair was the WS’s reaction to the problems or lack of dealing with the problems (I can’t find or remember the exact quote.)  I thought that was very helpful.  I will accept my part in the problems, but he did not have to do what he did.  I begged for change-go to counseling, more conversation, spending more time together...I made myself available for more intimacy, tried to do everything he wanted, apologized... in the end, nothing mattered... he already had his mind made up.  It was completely up to him to decide to change.
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ABurris105
And, I should add, that helps me when I get discouraged in our healing—-it was up to him to change because he was gone....had moved out and everything... and he did change—ended everything and asked to come back, so I know it was by his choice and that encourages me. 
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