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Kalmarjan
Intuition77, you deserve your name.

Everything you said about the WS is absolutely true in my case. Everything.

All I have to say is that while I could guess what was going on, "the game," admitting that it really WAS a game to my AP and NOT about me being SPECIAL. The truth is that in my case, if it weren't me, she would have tried (and did try) with someone else before/after me.

The Ego crush of that stings, and THAT is why it's "easier" to go back to the AP because then you think (pray, hope) that you could make it work, no matter how improbable, so you could avoid admitting you made the stupidest choice in a clutch situation.

I did both. I ran back to my AP, and descended out of the fog the long, hard way. It tool me 3 more months to finally just breakup with my AP. FINALLY ADMIT I made a mistake.

I have to add an aside to this... I don't know if it pertains to the situation here, but hopefully it demonstrates how I have changed, and like an example of what I went through to get here...

I know for a fact that my best friend (my best man) and I are no longer friends because I went back to my wife.

I'm not surprised because he surprised me with two things when I approached him about my affair.

1) It was cool with him that I was having an affair because he had one and that's why he divorced his wife. And cheated on that AP with another AP who is currently his wife.
2) He has NEVER shown me or told me about any shred of remorse for what he did to his wife, their child, and how he is currently today (he was caught in an emotional FB affair and quit FB over fear of losing his wife. NOT because he had wronged her, but because he was a "sex addict." (All his symptoms he told me really seemed tame. By his definition most men are sex addicts lol)

He encouraged me, and is a guy who is deep, deep in the fog.

I think I work hard at this because I am deep down afraid I won't do enough to make up for what I did the hurt I caused my real best friend, my wife. There are no excuses for what I did and I plan to make sure I don't squander my second chance.

The difference between my attitude and my ex-friend is clear. I am deeply sorry for hurting my wife by lying to her, and destroying what she thought was the perfect guy for her. Me. I will work to make a better me, one that she can trust unequivocally one day.

My friend still blames, fights, doesn't support, and disrespects a woman he promised to never do that too. He was wrong, he has a "problem" so he's not at fault, she controlled everything, he was housebound, his job sucked, etc. Etc. Etc. No personal blame.

I can't stand that.
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Intuition77
Good point and one I read somewhere. That when a man (or woman) is ready to own up and truly change you will see a housecleaning of sorts-where they on their own weed out people and things from their life that we're bad influences not morally in check with who they are choosing to be. One I watched for because yes my husband still as far as I know clings to the friends who defended his actions and we're cool with it and helped make excuses for him "men will be men" & all that. A true man stands for what he believes in.

So the man who spent weekends at the bar with buddies now on his own doesn't want to make his wife feel unsafe or alone so he chooses of his own accord to spend that time differently. He drops the friends that encourage the behavior-which also demonstrates I think how they lie to themes elves because prior my husband hated men who cheated etc. Only to discover later a few of his friends we're so cool with it they had to be doing it themselves. Those friends had to have that attitude before his affair-he just chose to ignore it rather then stand behind his word for something he said he believed in. Selfishness again too. He wanted to be accepted more then he wanted to decent.
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Kalmarjan
Shivers...

Yep. Exactly. Only to find out - fit in with cheaters and scoundrels.

Maybe I'm really hard on myself, but in my view, I should be, because I became the person that I hate. The cheater.

I too, judged, and hated cheating. Before I did it. I think that I wanted to be cool, to fit in with the younger crowd. Be someone that I am not. I'm going into the 40 Yo chapter soon.

I also found out, I don't belong with this younger generation. I don't get them. Ha ha what I used to think was stupid they all think is cool. And bottom line when I woke up from all this?

If she helped me cheat on my wife and this worked out ... She was okay with cheating with me, so what guarantee does she (or I) have that there will be no cheating between the two of us?

We can't have any guarantee. Just being together and doing what we did guarantees there will always be a chance for cheating. Therefore their can't be trust.

No trust, no intimacy.

Let me tell you when you wake up, you're like, really? How was I so stupid?
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Guiltguilt
Kal, having been to my first Sex and Love Addicts Anonymous meeting today and doing a ton of reading, not all men are sex addicts. It turns my stomach. It's not only about the sex, it's about the stuff that's discussed (and not discussed) here. Turns out I fit the bill, that's why my stomach is turning.

My wife is gone. New house settling in two weeks, no chance of reconciliation. Would this have come up if she'd stayed? I don't think so. Time to man up to my responsibilities, while doing some work on myself.
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Kalmarjan
Guiltguilt wrote:
Kal, having been to my first Sex and Love Addicts Anonymous meeting today and doing a ton of reading, not all men are sex addicts. It turns my stomach. It's not only about the sex, it's about the stuff that's discussed (and not discussed) here. Turns out I fit the bill, that's why my stomach is turning.

My wife is gone. New house settling in two weeks, no chance of reconciliation. Would this have come up if she'd stayed? I don't think so. Time to man up to my responsibilities, while doing some work on myself.


I hear you there. What I was trying to say was that the way my friend passed off the responsibility for his actions as a "sex addiction" and because of that it "wasn't his fault." When I asked him what he defined as "sex addiction," it didn't add up. By his definition, all guys would be addicts.

I think his problem doesn't stem from a sex addiction, just an obvious lack of boundaries. To cite the FB example, he allowed himself to get to a point with a female friend from back in high school days that his (current) wife was devastated and the whole thing threatened his marriage.

Instead of owning up to his problem, setting a boundary (that after mucking up three or four times you'd think he would realize he needs a boundary) his answer is to completely avoid Facebook altogether. Except he is on Google Plus, and I see him doing some of the same things.

In essence, his avoidance isn't to prevent him from hurting his wife by acting without integrity (by following vows he gave to her and has broken in the past...) but moreso because by avoiding Facebook he can be sure that he won't get caught in that situation (and be tempted.) It's not about his wife or his integrity, it's avoidance. I can sympathize with him, but if you saw how much control his current wife puts him under, it doesn't jive. He shouldn't have to live like that. He should figure out what he wants so he is able to say "Yes this is okay," or "no this is not okay."

Instead, he walks a fine line, on eggshells all the time. But, then again, he has not worked on himself. He hasn't thought about why he is doing these things. He chalks it up to "an addiction" and then is able to wash his hands of what he did. Because he was addicted. Or is addicted. But, he hasn't changed one little bit.

The difference between us two is that while he avoids because he is addicted, I may be addicted but I also know that I can't do that to my wife. I can't hurt my best friend that way for ANY reason. It's not who I am. It never was.

I think that's also reason #6324 that WS have a hard time looking at themselves (especially if they HATED cheaters before their affairs..) is the realization that you have been acting completely put of character. I know sometimes to a BS I think it would be hard to believe but me, as a WS WASN'T that guy that cheated. It is completely out of character for me. So, when you wake up you are flabbergasted on what you've done. The first reaction you have is defensive, because there HAS to be some reason you acted this way, right? (AND you'd be asking again, "please tell me I'm right!")

I'm glad you are getting help, and that you are working on you. It isn't to regain your marriage, but to make sure going forward you are a man of integrity. A guarantee to yourself that you can never let this happen to you again, because you aren't built that way. You are becoming a man of integrity, and that's a long, hard look at yourself and what you do and stand for. Looking at yourself and getting really honest about why you did what you did. (Without any blame or justifications either!)

It's not easy, but kudos to you.

It's totally worth it! After you will be free. Depressed a little, but free. [smile]
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