Saoirse

Half the literature says "do a 180" and the other half tells me that I should be treating him the way I want to be treated, the way I want to treat him. But then the 180 stuff says that if I show him affection then I'm going to push him back to her.

He's still ambivalent and kind of in the fog. He's starting to wake up but doesn't believe he can find way back now that he's "left me" in his head. He's very much a guy who cuts ties and walks away without looking back but he can't do that with me. Honestly, the fact that he hasn't shows growth but he's convinced he can't "retie the strings" he cut. He's also broken and deserves grace. I love him. I'm working on me but also willing to wait for him to figure it out as long as he's doing *something* - he's reading and we're talking and he's looking for a therapist. We are by no means anywhere close to recovered, but we have made progress.

I hate how awkward things are between us. I miss him. I'm lonely. I'm back in the sad part of this roller coaster, after 2 solid weeks in anger. I don't want to anything *wrong* but this doesn't feel right.

I'm terrified to make a wrong move, but how can we establish any kind of connection to build a relationship like this?

Whether or not we build another marriage, our goal is to be friends and awesome co-parents - that requires a lot of the same things that a marriage does, yk?

I'm so torn and confused. I made him move into the spare bedroom and yesterday he moved all of his clothes from our closet to that one and it broke me. I know it's not undoable and that it's mostly convenience but it hit me really hard.

(100 days from DDay)

BS
D-Day 10-26-19
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anthro
Saoirse wrote:

Half the literature says "do a 180" and the other half tells me that I should be treating him the way I want to be treated, the way I want to treat him. But then the 180 stuff says that if I show him affection then I'm going to push him back to her



You don't do the 180 to affect your WS, you do it because it is the right thing to do out of respect for yourself and the one life you've been given. Neither he nor his reactions nor his AP nor his feelings are relevant to the 180 nor do they really warrant your concern given how little care for you he has demonstrated. 
Formerly known as Anthropoidape... male bs, long affair, d-day Feb 2017.
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asdfg
what does "do a 180" mean here?
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Saoirse
The standard definition. A turnaround where you start to focus on yourself to heal, and to make yourself okay with whatever your situation turns into.
BS
D-Day 10-26-19
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Saoirse
Anthro, I get that. But cutting him off isn't conducive to healing for either of us. I don't hate him, I won't hate him. He effed up. Royally. But I'm committed to forgiving and developing a new relationship regardless of whether or not we remain married.
BS
D-Day 10-26-19
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ThrivenotSurvive
Keep in mind one thing - YOU are the only authority on your life.  YOU are the only one who has to live with the consequences of your decisions and actions.  While there are many good reasons for practicing the 180, they are for you - to protect you and to remove the focus on something and someone you have no control over and place it squarely back on yourself.  However, if it feels inauthentic - then how is it helping you? 

I say read everything - and then takes what makes sense to you and drop the rest.  If you look across our members you will see that we have ALL chosen different paths to dealing with this trauma.  Each of us is a different personality, in a different relationship with a different history.  When possible, "to thine own self be true" - especially when it comes to your core values.  What works for one person may feel plain wrong to another.  

So I say spend time praying, meditating or whatever you do to find that still place in your heart and mind.  Then listen to what your gut says - and act on it.  Come what may, you will at least knew you followed your OWN direction and forged your own path.  

FYI - I practiced a sort of "modified 180" for the first year or so.  I did not distance myself from my husband, but I did put my own needs first.  I spent far more time building up my self-value and focusing on self-care than I did the marriage.  But I did not suddenly treat him like a polite stranger or any of that.  That is what made sense to me for my particular situation.  
BS - Female
Married 27 years, one adult child
DD May 2016

“When we are no longer able to change a situation, we are challenged to change ourselves.” - V Frankl
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Keepabuzz

Saoirse wrote:
Anthro, I get that. But cutting him off isn't conducive to healing for either of us. I don't hate him, I won't hate him. He effed up. Royally. But I'm committed to forgiving and developing a new relationship regardless of whether or not we remain married.



I did the 180, although I didn’t know I was.  Unbeknownst to me  my wife was having an affair with a coworker. During this period she became mean, and down right cruel to me. I knew something was off, and even had suspicions and outright asked her on more than one occasion, but of course she gaslighted me again and again. Made me think I was crazy, being ridiculous, etc. I I thought she was having some kind of break down. After about 5. I this of this, I was done. I didn’t say a word to her about anything, and I just stopped trying. I didn’t text her, didn’t call her. I only spoke to her when she spoke to me. I solely focused on myself and what I wanted to do. I wasn’t mean, or rude, I was just no longer concerned with her. I found out a month later when she confessed to me that she had picked up on that immediately and that’s when it all became real to her, she was going to lose me. She immediately ended her affair and did her best to be super wife and super mom. Me nor the kids were buying what she was selling. It was like a switch had flipped. Well when you just flip a switch, and just as easily be flipped back and I was not will to go through that. She realized after a couple of weeks that she was going to have to confess, and it took her a couple of weeks more to work up the courage to do it. 

I didn’t do the 180 to make her change, or to manipulate her in any way. I just simply made the decision to no longer live that way. She was not going to abuse me any further. I turned my focus on to myself and my kids alone. I didn’t care what she did. She was none of my concern. Not that I didn’t love her, or hated her. I just chose me.  

Male BS, D-day July 2015, trying to stay out of the dark.....
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BlindCheetah
Keepabuzz wrote:


 


I did the 180, although I didn’t know I was.  Unbeknownst to me  my wife was having an affair with a coworker. During this period she became mean, and down right cruel to me. I knew something was off, and even had suspicions and outright asked her on more than one occasion, but of course she gaslighted me again and again. Made me think I was crazy, being ridiculous, etc. I I thought she was having some kind of break down. After about 5. I this of this, I was done. I didn’t say a word to her about anything, and I just stopped trying. I didn’t text her, didn’t call her. I only spoke to her when she spoke to me. I solely focused on myself and what I wanted to do. I wasn’t mean, or rude, I was just no longer concerned with her. I found out a month later when she confessed to me that she had picked up on that immediately and that’s when it all became real to her, she was going to lose me. She immediately ended her affair and did her best to be super wife and super mom. Me nor the kids were buying what she was selling. It was like a switch had flipped. Well when you just flip a switch, and just as easily be flipped back and I was not will to go through that. She realized after a couple of weeks that she was going to have to confess, and it took her a couple of weeks more to work up the courage to do it. 

I didn’t do the 180 to make her change, or to manipulate her in any way. I just simply made the decision to no longer live that way. She was not going to abuse me any further. I turned my focus on to myself and my kids alone. I didn’t care what she did. She was none of my concern. Not that I didn’t love her, or hated her. I just chose me.  



I wish I could have read this post during the summer, you just described my husband in an affair. I could see he was fighting something he wouldn’t tell me about, there was only one thing that explained his behavior but I had no way to prove it. I know now that my gut is pretty damn trustworthy and I should always call bullish!t when the alarm goes off.

Female BS
Married 19 years 
2 tween girls

DDay 10/2019 
Affair 1, 11/2010 to 2/2011
Affair 2, 6/2019 to 12/2019 - Persistent One is still trying to contact him. 

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Keepabuzz


I wish I could have read this post during the summer, you just described my husband in an affair. I could see he was fighting something he wouldn’t tell me about, there was only one thing that explained his behavior but I had no way to prove it. I know now that my gut is pretty damn trustworthy and I should always call bullish!t when the alarm goes off.


I have told my wife numerous times since d-day that for the rest of my days on this side of the dirt, I will always trust my gut over her. I don’t need proof, and I won’t be playing detective. If my gut says something’s up, I’m out. So she had better go above and beyond to never do anything to make my gut go off. 
Male BS, D-day July 2015, trying to stay out of the dark.....
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JKoloseik
Keepabuzz wrote:


 


I did the 180, although I didn’t know I was.  Unbeknownst to me  my wife was having an affair with a coworker. During this period she became mean, and down right cruel to me. I knew something was off, and even had suspicions and outright asked her on more than one occasion, but of course she gaslighted me again and again. Made me think I was crazy, being ridiculous, etc. I I thought she was having some kind of break down. After about 5. I this of this, I was done. I didn’t say a word to her about anything, and I just stopped trying. I didn’t text her, didn’t call her. I only spoke to her when she spoke to me. I solely focused on myself and what I wanted to do. I wasn’t mean, or rude, I was just no longer concerned with her. I found out a month later when she confessed to me that she had picked up on that immediately and that’s when it all became real to her, she was going to lose me. She immediately ended her affair and did her best to be super wife and super mom. Me nor the kids were buying what she was selling. It was like a switch had flipped. Well when you just flip a switch, and just as easily be flipped back and I was not will to go through that. She realized after a couple of weeks that she was going to have to confess, and it took her a couple of weeks more to work up the courage to do it. 

I didn’t do the 180 to make her change, or to manipulate her in any way. I just simply made the decision to no longer live that way. She was not going to abuse me any further. I turned my focus on to myself and my kids alone. I didn’t care what she did. She was none of my concern. Not that I didn’t love her, or hated her. I just chose me.  

Keepabuzz wrote:


I have told my wife numerous times since d-day that for the rest of my days on this side of the dirt, I will always trust my gut over her. I don’t need proof, and I won’t be playing detective. If my gut says something’s up, I’m out. So she had better go above and beyond to never do anything to make my gut go off. 


Their behaviors are so obvious, yet their words are so confusing! I never could figure out why, when he is "acting out", he is so especially cruel to me. Three years after DD, with no remorse and plenty of relapses, the head games and confusion... Keepabuzz, I think I need to take your words to heart. I will trust my gut over him, because my gut was right every... single... time. It's a sad and exhausting thing to endure; but the manipulation and cruel words are so senseless that 180 is the only way to go to stay healthy. He moved out during his last relapse, and, well, he wants back. Three years of lies and cruelty? And who knows what before that in our nine years of marriage? Nope. I don't know what will happen, but I gotta keep myself out of his pit. The depression and confusion and especially the darned ptsd symptoms were so overwhelming, I would stay in bed for days. No more. This is HIS pit... HE dug it. "180" and "trust my gut" here I come!
Female BS 
DD 10/16/16
WS multiple relapses
Physical affair, emotional affairs, online affairs
In-house separation 06/11/18
Complete separation 01/04/20
Last relapse 01/07/20
Don't be afraid. Don't be dismayed. The battle belongs to the Lord.
2 Ch. 20:15
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Keepabuzz
JKoloseik wrote:


Their behaviors are so obvious, yet their words are so confusing! I never could figure out why, when he is "acting out", he is so especially cruel to me. Three years after DD, with no remorse and plenty of relapses, the head games and confusion... Keepabuzz, I think I need to take your words to heart. I will trust my gut over him, because my gut was right every... single... time. It's a sad and exhausting thing to endure; but the manipulation and cruel words are so senseless that 180 is the only way to go to stay healthy. He moved out during his last relapse, and, well, he wants back. Three years of lies and cruelty? And who knows what before that in our nine years of marriage? Nope. I don't know what will happen, but I gotta keep myself out of his pit. The depression and confusion and especially the darned ptsd symptoms were so overwhelming, I would stay in bed for days. No more. This is HIS pit... HE dug it. "180" and "trust my gut" here I come!



I think him moving out was the best thing that could have happened for you. No, don’t let him back in.  It’s much easier to keep him out than to get him out. I think your path is clear, make every decision from this point forward with this as the premise “what is best for ME?”. Let him stay in his brokenness, and cruelty. Build your new life for yourself!  You can do this!
Male BS, D-day July 2015, trying to stay out of the dark.....
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JKoloseik
Ugh! Once again, he wants to try counseling, and he chose a certified counselor. Even though we've discussed, and be agreed, we need specialized counseling, he chose another church counselor. We've even had a phone session with Tim T, and of course,  my WH did not do the work suggested and did not bother with another session. I think he feels safe with certified counselors rather than those who specialize in affairs, because marriage counselors come at it as the two need to work together, there needs to be friendship, there needs to be trust. If I'm not doing my part (like being his buddy, ugh!) then the focus is on me and what I'm doing wrong. My gut says his motives are wrong, but who cares? The counselor happens to be a friend of his. But I know how to contact him. So I decided to send the counselor an email perfectly mapping out what I know my WH didn't share. My issues, his issues, past experiences with counselors, and how recent his last relapse was. Then I asked the counselor to pray about whether he wants to take us on or not. That way he's completely aware of what he's getting into. I decided to leave it up to the counselor and didn't bother telling my WH. It won't change my trajectory. The working two jobs, I'm saving, I'm slowly getting his things packed, he's not moving back in for a very long time, if ever. And after I've saved enough, I'll know by then what my next step will be. 
Female BS 
DD 10/16/16
WS multiple relapses
Physical affair, emotional affairs, online affairs
In-house separation 06/11/18
Complete separation 01/04/20
Last relapse 01/07/20
Don't be afraid. Don't be dismayed. The battle belongs to the Lord.
2 Ch. 20:15
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ThrivenotSurvive
FYI - I went through a form of therapy training years ago (much, much less than Tim and the other professionals here) and spent several years in private practice.  Across the board, in all professional organizations - psychiatrists, psychologists, LPC/LCPC/LPCC/LMHC, etc. it is considered unethical to see friends.  If this guy agrees to see you he could be putting his license at risk - and it is a VERY, VERY, VERY bad idea.  If you have any desire to try counseling, decide who you want to see and lay it out as the only choice.  This would not be a point of debate for me.  YOU are the one that needs to feel safe and YOU are the only one who can determine if the counselor feels "right" to you.  HE can join you where you feel safe, or not. It is really that simple in my opinion.  
BS - Female
Married 27 years, one adult child
DD May 2016

“When we are no longer able to change a situation, we are challenged to change ourselves.” - V Frankl
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Blessedby7
If you have any desire to try counseling, decide who you want to see and lay it out as the only choice.  This would not be a point of debate for me.  YOU are the one that needs to feel safe and YOU are the only one who can determine if the counselor feels "right" to you.  HE can join you where you feel safe, or not. It is really that simple in my opinion.  


Yes! This! I am in a unique position in that I'm close enough we can go see Tim himself. It'll be difficult as it's a two hour drive, and I've gone back and forth considering someone local, but time after time I've seen stories of counselors who talk about problems in the marriage and things *I* should do, and I'm just not willing to take that chance. My WH tends to pick small points and laser focus on those, so I want to be sure if he does that, it's from someone I trust. 
Female BS
Dday 10/12/2018

Renewing myself one day at a time. 
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Keepabuzz
Blessedby7 wrote:


Yes! This! I am in a unique position in that I'm close enough we can go see Tim himself. It'll be difficult as it's a two hour drive, and I've gone back and forth considering someone local, but time after time I've seen stories of counselors who talk about problems in the marriage and things *I* should do, and I'm just not willing to take that chance. My WH tends to pick small points and laser focus on those, so I want to be sure if he does that, it's from someone I trust. 



Tim is definitely worth a 2 hour drive! 
Male BS, D-day July 2015, trying to stay out of the dark.....
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