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Now_what
Kal.....yes, I want to put my marriage back together. I love my husband and I'm so sorry for what I did to him. I cannot fully repair what I have done without removing this woman from my life.

I hate thinking that people view me as an as*hole but, you're right, I am. I need to suck it up and focus on what I want.

He's not in a good place these days and I feel horrible about it. You would think that it would be easier over time when the "bad places" weren't as frequent. But, they still hit just as hard as they did in the beginning just not as often.

As always....thanks Kal. Have a good weekend.


Kalmarjan wrote:
Once again, I have to say... It's all about forgiving yourself first. Part of this is whether you can reconcile keeping your friend and working on your marriage. Will the two work out? What do you want?

In the end, as hard as it is to say, what do YOU want? If you want to work on your marriage, then you need to do that, and remove whatever is in the way of your success. If that means taking your friend out of the picture temporarily, so be it.

It's not FOR your spouse, it's for you. I know I may come of selfish, but so be it. I certainly wouldn't allow myself to be in a relationship where my wife dictated who I could be friends with and who I couldn't.

Let me be clear. While it helped my wife to get past my affair by ceasing contact with my AP, I didn't do it to make her happy. I did it because I realized that I would not be able to reconcile with my wife while I was keeping contact with the AP. I don't want to be with the AP, I want to be with my wife.

So, I removed the distractions.

Same goes with my friend. While my wife isn't happy about my friend's behaviour, it is not because of my wife that I cut him out of my life. It's because it just won't work out to have that influence in my life.

So, bottom line is, you really need to figure out what it is you are going for, and quick. Is it reconciling with your husband? Then get on that sh*t and focus on that.

Don't worry about what people think of you. You are already an assh*le, pure and simple because you cheated. But, big deal. You can fix that if you want, by laser focus.

I want to be with my wife. There are people who don't like me for what I've done. There are people who don't agree with how things have ended up. So what? The only opinions that after in this situation are mine, my wife's, and my son's. Period.

After all, who are you trying to impress?
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Now_what
Ok, I'm raising the white flag! You're right on many levels. Thank you for the brutal honesty. And, I mean this sincerely. No nothing behind it. I will ponder everything you have taken the time to write regarding the question that I presented. I apologize for my defensive reaction. I really wish you the best.





Intuition77 wrote:
Ok. You can keep trying to take the truth in what I'm saying and pretend your patronizing me instead. Typical wS passive aggressiveness & a way to deflect from the real point. And your message is loud and clear-you only want to hear someone agree with you and make you feel better about your continued choices. I offered honest insight I to what was going on, how it made your spouse feel and how you could address it. The problem was I put the expectations for your problems on you to fix and you want it all to be someone else's problem by what you post. I wasnt judging you or holding it against you-you didn't cheat on me. And nothing in your little story really reflected much for me except the selfishness which is present in all affair stories. I was offering what was really going on-continuing to be selfish, mimicking the affair behaviors & more importantly how YOU could address that with yourself. But you wanted to play drama queen and victim by citing everything you gave up for your marriage-which may all be true and valid but has nothing to do with the situation you presented in this post. So why bring it up? Oh right to defend yourself and deflect from the actual situation you presented and "asked" for advice on. Your deflecting the truth in what I said by playing victim.

And I actually I just reread my last post and wow your really concerned with being defensive because nothing in that post was attacking. I was being quite kind and trying to be helpful. It was actually far less blunt then my first post. You don't want helpful actual advice because it all boils down to you and your choices. You really just want to hear someone try to make you feel good.

I'll skip over your threads from now on as it's apparent you just want people to walk on eggshells and stroke your ego rather then actual insight or opinions. Point taken. Good luck in your life & marriage. Bye.
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Kalmarjan
Now_what wrote:
Kal.....yes, I want to put my marriage back together. I love my husband and I'm so sorry for what I did to him. I cannot fully repair what I have done without removing this woman from my life.

I hate thinking that people view me as an as*hole but, you're right, I am. I need to suck it up and focus on what I want.

....

As always....thanks Kal. Have a good weekend.




No, you are not an assh*le. I meant that people view you as one... There's a difference. (Unless you really are... But that's a whole other story there eh?)

But I do understand the want to placate everyone, to do whatever it takes to make someone happy. I say I'm all for it, but it can't be at my expense. I won't give up who I am to make things better. I don't know if I am wording this wrong...

What I mean is that I am married to my wife. I want to be with her, but not out of a sense of guilt, or Honor, or any crap like that.

I just want to be with her. She's my love, my friend.

Once you get there... Then all the rest doesn't matter. Yes, I cheated. I Lied, I acted completely out of character. Hell, I even found out tonight that someone who I considered a friend/acquaintance covertly cut me out of their social circle because they though I was the big A.

So what? I don't need to worry what that guy thinks. Honestly, I could care less.

It's more important to me about how my wife feels, and what she thinks of me.

I'm not excusing what I did, but I am moving past it. Slowly, but surely. I've come to realize that I can't bear the brunt of the guilt (like the cross in the Alanis Morissette song...) I can't move forward by clinging to that.

You'll get there too, but honestly the hardest thing to do is to forgive yourself.

I know there will be people who say that I'm not right, or I'm selfish. Sure, maybe. I just see the need to self flagellate anymore. There isn't a point, because not even the person I betrayed wants me to do that anymore.

In the end, the best advice I can give is to figure out for real what you want and be relentless in your pursuit to get it. If that's a new beginning with your husband, and your friend is getting in the way of that, then you know what to do.
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Now_what
Kalmarjan wrote:
Now_what wrote:
Kal.....yes, I want to put my marriage back together. I love my husband and I'm so sorry for what I did to him. I cannot fully repair what I have done without removing this woman from my life.

I hate thinking that people view me as an as*hole but, you're right, I am. I need to suck it up and focus on what I want.

....

As always....thanks Kal. Have a good weekend.




No, you are not an assh*le. I meant that people view you as one... There's a difference. (Unless you really are... But that's a whole other story there eh?)

But I do understand the want to placate everyone, to do whatever it takes to make someone happy. I say I'm all for it, but it can't be at my expense. I won't give up who I am to make things better. I don't know if I am wording this wrong...

What I mean is that I am married to my wife. I want to be with her, but not out of a sense of guilt, or Honor, or any crap like that.

I just want to be with her. She's my love, my friend.

Once you get there... Then all the rest doesn't matter. Yes, I cheated. I Lied, I acted completely out of character. Hell, I even found out tonight that someone who I considered a friend/acquaintance covertly cut me out of their social circle because they though I was the big A.

So what? I don't need to worry what that guy thinks. Honestly, I could care less.

It's more important to me about how my wife feels, and what she thinks of me.

I'm not excusing what I did, but I am moving past it. Slowly, but surely. I've come to realize that I can't bear the brunt of the guilt (like the cross in the Alanis Morissette song...) I can't move forward by clinging to that.

You'll get there too, but honestly the hardest thing to do is to forgive yourself.

I know there will be people who say that I'm not right, or I'm selfish. Sure, maybe. I just see the need to self flagellate anymore. There isn't a point, because not even the person I betrayed wants me to do that anymore.

In the end, the best advice I can give is to figure out for real what you want and be relentless in your pursuit to get it. If that's a new beginning with your husband, and your friend is getting in the way of that, then you know what to do.


I think the attachment to my friend is the residual effect of the the affair fog. I've let go and moved on from the AP a long time ago. But, I think that continuing the friendship with her is an extension of the affair.

Rcovering from an affair, especially if you're repairing your marriage, is really like starting everything over. For me, many things attached to the time period I had the relationship with the AP has to be eliminated from my life now to truly move on and help my husband heal and our marriage heal. I see that now. It's enough that he faces random triggers on his own, I don't need to add to it.

I don't know what forgiving my self feels like. I know I have these waves of longing to go back to the way things used to be before the affair. It's definitely not helpful as it puts me in a state and my husband has to witness that. And, he doesn't want me to be in that place but he also doesn't want me to forget what I did. Which I don't....ever. But, it poses this fine line that I need to navigate. Don't forget what I did, be empathetic towards him up but don't feel bad about what I did while doing those two things. My brain understands what I need to do, it's just hard cutting off the emotions attached to maintaining those goals.

But that is ultimately what I will strive for. I want my husband. I love him. Now, as Dr. Laura would say.....do the right thing.

Kal...are you and your wife in any therapy? Individual or couples? I was doing individual for a while. My husband tried but he didn't keep it up. We tried couples in the very beginning but that was a disaster. We weren't ready. We're starting again this week. Fingers crossed.
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Graceandhope
Maybe I'm reading this wrong or its just me but I need to know that my husband is struggling with what he did and what we have lost and that he does realize what he did and said does mean he was an ass. Other wise it just feels like he's picking up and moving on, no big deal. And maybe this is part of my forgiveness but we both know what this has done to me, I don't assume anymore what is up with him
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Kalmarjan
Now_what wrote:


Kal...are you and your wife in any therapy? Individual or couples? I was doing individual for a while. My husband tried but he didn't keep it up. We tried couples in the very beginning but that was a disaster. We weren't ready. We're starting again this week. Fingers crossed.


We are both in individual counsellungcounselling, and we did couples counselling, and are waiting for the new year to come so we can use more sessions from the employee program.

In between that, there are a lot of books, reading, and most important, talking to each other.
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Kalmarjan
Graceandhope wrote:
Maybe I'm reading this wrong or its just me but I need to know that my husband is struggling with what he did and what we have lost and that he does realize what he did and said does mean he was an ass. Other wise it just feels like he's picking up and moving on, no big deal. And maybe this is part of my forgiveness but we both know what this has done to me, I don't assume anymore what is up with him


Ah I think it's important to note that I'm not talking about DDay, I'm talking about over 17 months after DDay, and also, there is nothing about sweeping this under a rug. Quite the contrary.

It's about accepting responsibility for what I've done. I'm not struggling with it because I've come to terms with what happened and my actions. (and the consequences)

Now I can focus on our relationship, and what I need to do to strengthen that. Don't get me wrong, I still am sorry for what I've done, but instead of the struggle, accepting what I did was wrong helps my wife know that I am all in for our relationship. There are still times that my wife has a trigger, but I can guess that and work through it.

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Now_what
Graceandhope wrote:
Maybe I'm reading this wrong or its just me but I need to know that my husband is struggling with what he did and what we have lost and that he does realize what he did and said does mean he was an ass. Other wise it just feels like he's picking up and moving on, no big deal. And maybe this is part of my forgiveness but we both know what this has done to me, I don't assume anymore what is up with him


You're right. I feel that my husband should still see that I struggle with what I have done. But, the problem is once I go there it affects all aspects of me and I have a hard time snapping out of it. The guilt and shame are hard to shake once you tap into them. Like I said I need to find a balance of letting my husband know that I'm still very remorseful but in a constructive way that it doesn't ruin both of our days or week!
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Now_what
Kalmarjan wrote:
Now_what wrote:


Kal...are you and your wife in any therapy? Individual or couples? I was doing individual for a while. My husband tried but he didn't keep it up. We tried couples in the very beginning but that was a disaster. We weren't ready. We're starting again this week. Fingers crossed.


We are both in individual counsellungcounselling, and we did couples counselling, and are waiting for the new year to come so we can use more sessions from the employee program.

In between that, there are a lot of books, reading, and most important, talking to each other.


That's great. As I said we're starting counseling again this week. I read stuff about infidelity everyday. It's definitely helpful.
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Scarlett
Maybe it's best to post these under the OW/OM section so it doesn't trigger the BS's on the page.

I understand why your husband is upset since we've had the same types of conversations in our MC. In my situation it's actually my mother who my H has a problem with because she was aware of the A and covered for me. 

The bottom line is in recovery you need to surround yourself with people who are supportive of the marriage. I can see how having a friend who understands your side and what you're going through is helpful to you through your own struggles. There are very few people who would understand unless they went throughout themselves. Often the WS is not allowed to feel our own pains. However, I can see how your husband would be very upset over this friendship. There is trust to be built, and as long as you are friends with someone who condones that behavior, you are vulnerable to do it again.

Many times I get upset when I can't do something because of the A.  I feel like a child who's being told what I can and cannot do, and that makes me bitter towards my husband...even though I know it is 100% my fault. In those situations I try and adjust my thinking and realize it's not just best for my husband or my marriage, but also what's best for me. It is much harder to get over what happened when I keep talking about it to others. If being around your friend makes you think of the A, it's a trigger and it's best to remove it. I know I cannot move forward when I'm still thinking of my AP. 
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flight
Intuition, in my opinion you are out of line. You are letting your anger get in the way of your replies and using it to judge Now_what. She has been very gracious in accepting your wrath and somehow has not been as defensive as most people would have. She is taking her lumps well.

Now_What. The emotions are difficult as are the decisions, but I have found it easy by just asking the question, "what would a loving person do?". Other people can try, "what would my trusted friends say?" or "What would Jesus do?", etc. Whoever might best represent your conscience with love and wisdom.  The answers are usually painfully obvious when asking a question like that, but it is still hard to make the right choice. I find myself saying, "yeah, but..."  LOL. Pick your question and ask it. What is the answer from that outside viewpoint?

As for your husband. Are you doing enough to make him see your comittment? I know if it were me, I would respond to affection, contritness, understanding. A letter or a talk telling me that you know how difficult this is for him and you know you hurt him and are so very sorry and willing to do anything to meet his needs and make it right would go a long way. I know if he is reluctant, you don't want to go overboard. Maybe he winces from physical affection, I don't know. But if you go out of your way to make him feel he is safe and you can be trusted, that is what you want to build. Appeal to him on a physical, emotional and spiritual level in whatever ways he will allow and you will put him at ease. Avoid being defensive. Just validate him when his frustrations arise and soothe him. No one can argue with someone who is agreeing with them and no one can resist someone who is meeting their needs.
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Robin1971
intuition77,

I just want you to know I think you are AMAZING with your words and i wish i could speak as well as you ( maybe i wouldnt get in trouble than) when i try to give my opinion.  also you are always so right on and i would come to you for advice anyday of the week!!!!!!!!!!!.   you have a way about you that really makes sense and is so straight forward on both sides.  thank you is all i wanted to say
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