anthro Show full post »
Notemanj, I am pretty patient overall. My WS has not done everything since d-day the way I would have preferred (as for before d-day.... )

But there are a few things that were pretty important to me.

Firstly, she confessed. It took a ridiculously long time and that's a sign of weakness, but it says something about someone if they confess rather than getting caught.

Secondly, she never relapsed. She did not cut contact immediately after d-day, and that was pretty damaging, but the contact was - and I believe this - on her side all about telling the AP to focus on his family and forget her. That is obviously silly ("hi, it's me, forget about me.") but it is not the same as resuming the affair (then again at times it did involve affair behavious such as secrecy).

She has not always been responsive to what I've been asking of her but in absolute fairness to her she has in her own way been working rebuilding. I think her way has simply been wrong but that is not the same as not trying at all.

There was no trickle truth. 

It is well past time when learning more is something that shouldn't be happening. Your husband has seen the effects of late discoveries enough times to learn that he needs to 'fess up everything now and get in front of it. He is either kind of stupid, very cowardly, or else just figures he has gotten away with new detonations enough times that he will just deal with them as they come up and hope that only some of them end up being discovered. Better to deal with only three discoveries than to reveal ten and have to deal with all of them.

You say you want to keep living together until your youngest graduates. I don't think your youngest would thrive in that home environment.

You say you can't afford the house and an apartment. I believe you. Separation hammers family finances pretty hard. Still, people do it every day. If keeping the house isn't possible then you don't keep the house. If you both have to end up renting smaller places then that is how it goes; better to live in a smaller place without him than a bigger place with him if you ask me. You might have a transitional setup followed by a more stable long-term setup. 

The important thing imho is this: you don't have to commit to leaving to make a detailed plan for leaving. You can make the detailed plan just to see what it might look like. This is our equity in our home. This is how it looks split 50:50. This is how much child support he would have to pay. This number, that number. That's a nice little apartment for me and a teenager, and I can afford the rent on these numbers. I would stake my life on there being a plan that works. No harm in putting it all in a spreadsheet. If your H suddenly steps up, reveals the last ten bits of trickle truth, and it all feels okay, you haven't wasted much by making a contingency plan.
Formerly known as Anthropoidape... male bs, long affair, d-day Feb 2017.
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Phoenix, I am so sorry to hear that.  I have read enough of your posts to know that you are not trying to condone your choices.  You have clearly tried to own it, work to understand yourself and attempt to heal the damage you inflicted.  

Sadly, you and Anthro are two sides of a scenario that often breaks my heart on this forum.  In these cases, it seems like the two spouses' are unable to be of the same mind (to save the marriage) at the same time.  

Often it seems that initially the BS, while devastated is able to retain hope and desire for the relationship to survive - and tries to allow space/time for the WS to "figure out what they want/get their head out of the fog".  But during this period, while the BS is still so fragile and needs desperately to be chosen, wholly, completely in a way that leaves little room for doubt, their WS is still in limbo.  The WS is trying to sort out their feelings, trying to figure out why they can feel such different feelings of what seems like love for two different people, how they ever got themselves into this mess, what does it all mean about them, their marriage and their partner, etc...  

But this time spent waffling, staying while still seeming unsure, is a whole new set of pain for the BS.  And it seems to do as much, if not more, damage to the BS than the affair itself.  

I think it is because on some level we know that our spouse didn't expect to get caught, to never be forced to choose and we like to believe if they were faced with the realization of actually losing us, they'd immediately snap out of it.  That the idea of losing us would be too great a price to pay.  So if, after DD they still seem uncertain, it seems as if they have said we have NO VALUE.  Not only were we not worth loving well - we aren't even worth fighting for.

To us, the BS, it feels as if we are standing there, stripped naked of our pride, gutted and battered, trying to be brave enough to extend our heart to the very person who gutted us. And in turn, that person (the WS) shrugs and says... "Ummm, maybe.  I'm really not sure.  I still have all these feelings that I have to figure out."  Of course, that isn't truly what is happening.  Both are undergoing deeply painful complex emotions and acting in instinctive ways that stem from their childhood experiences.  But as a BS, I can tell you that knowing that didn't change how I FELT. 

Then, by the time the WS has sorted themselves out well enough to know what they do really want and it is their spouse... that spouse is too damaged, too gutted... they slowly bled out during that period where their WS was getting it together.  I am an internal optimist, but even I know there are points of no return - my husband almost blew his chance with me (and that was a brief window of indecision that lasted 4 DAYS - but felt like 4 years of rejection to me). 

I don't know what the future holds for either of you, but I hope you can find your way back to happy.  Really, deeply happy.  Because Phoenix, as a BS I can tell you - you don't deserve to pay forever.  Maybe for a while - God knows yo need to understand the pain we endure.  And certainly you needed and will always need to own what you did. Your regret will serve as a reminder to never make the same mistakes.  

But it does not give your husband a license to emotionally starve you for the rest of your lives.  That isn't healthy for him and it isn't healthy for you.  

Has he done any counseling?  I know it pissed me off that I had to heal myself from the pain of my husband's mistakes, but I did it anyway.  Because it's how healing works.  Nobody can fix us, we have to fix ourselves - they just need to not cause more harm and support us while we get there.  


thank you so much for your kind words. It means a lot coming from a BS. 
i have been willing to save our marriage from the beginning. I found a marriage counselor that dealt with infidelity two weeks after the first Dday. We went once and he never wanted to go back. He is still ambivalent about us. Last week he told me he was going to start working on himself and that I should work on my past trauma. That hopefully at the end of that journey we could talk once again about the next step. It gave me hope. Today he texted me for 6 hours straight calling me every name in the book. He also visited my old job and the restaurant where I hung out once with the AP. He sent me pictures and reminded me those were the places where I found the love of my life. It was very painful. To answer your question he went to therapy for a few months. He stopped because he felt it was more painful to speak about it constantly. I feel for Anthro, he is willing to give his WS another chance no matter what and she for whatever reason can’t see that. I cry every night and pray every day that god soften my husbands heart so he can let me in and I can live my life making it up to him.  
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anthro wrote:

It is well past time when learning more is something that shouldn't be happening. Your husband has seen the effects of late discoveries enough times to learn that he needs to 'fess up everything now and get in front of it. He is either kind of stupid, very cowardly, or else just figures he has gotten away with new detonations enough times that he will just deal with them as they come up and hope that only some of them end up being discovered. Better to deal with only three discoveries than to reveal ten and have to deal with all of them.

This.  While I agree with everything Anthro said, this is the thing that stands out the most to me.  Even if he was too stupid or immature to recognize the consequences of his actions the first time he gave you trickle truth, he's had enough opportunities to see the damage it does.  He's either too stupid to learn from his mistakes, too selfish to own up to anything he isn't forced to or too weak to face the consequences.  None are appealing character traits in a mate.  

I truly believe we are not the sum of our mistakes.  And that how we handle our mistakes says just as much about our character as the fact that we made them in the first place.  Do we take ownership?  Do we do everything in our power to right the wrong or alleviate the pain?  Do we make the changes necessary to make sure we never make that mistake (or anything remotely like it) again?

But even using this pretty generous yardstick your husband is failing miserably.    I am so sorry Notemanj - your deserve so much more.  

I know you are scared, but trust yourself.  You may be loving and compassionate - but you are no fool and none of us see you that way. Whatever choice you make, you will be okay.  The only thing I know for sure is that you cannot continue to live with this level of drama and trickle truth.  It's like living in an emotional war zone.  It will destroy you physically and emotionally.  No one and nothing is worth that.
BS - Female
Married 27 years, one adult child
DD May 2016

“When we are no longer able to change a situation, we are challenged to change ourselves.” - V Frankl
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First, do no harm. This was part of my Hippocratic oath. And should honestly be something instilled in us as CHILDREN. 

Notemanj, only you know when enough is enough. This is something that you get to choose. Being put in the position where you have to choose yourself over your WS sucks. Because we should never ever have been in this position at all... but here we all are. 

I agree with anthro- make a plan. Get the details down, and work out the finances of it all. It’s not going to be nice, but it’s something you need to do if you are considering separation. Again- making a plan, sorting through the finances etc doesn’t actually mean you HAVE to do it... it just lays your options out clearly. So you can see them for what they are, rather than a haze of more things to worry about. 

I am curious. Did he confess to the letter? Did you find out about it in some way? What was his response when confronted? Trickle truth is the single most damaging factor in all of this imo (outside of the affair itself obviously). I desperately wish my WS had had the balls to confess and come clean. He didn’t. I ‘discovered’ a lot by myself, which is a HUGE detriment to my ability or willingness to trust him now. There was a trend though... the earlier things I discovered, he would try to deny before eventually confessing (so stupid really- if I’ve found out, what the hell is the point of continuing to lie?! I believe a lot of this was motivated by fear and being a coward). The later ‘discoveries’ he honestly probably had forgotten about, and he did not try to deny (again, a worthless exercise given my ‘proof’) but owned up when confronted.

Still not an ideal situation, but better than ongoing discoveries and denial I suppose. More importantly, there have been no more for quite some time now... and no breaking NC to my knowledge. 

While it absolutely sucks that you’re suffering from more trickle truth... (it is well past the time for that!!!) what is he doing? 

I will admit I’ve called my WS every name in the book too. 100x over. I’ve probably even made some up. And I meant every word I hurled at him. At the same time, there comes a point when I don’t necessarily believe he is all of those things NOW- that is just what I see him as, when I think of the person who actively betrayed me. Because he is changing. I had a meltdown today and screamed names at him that I haven’t in months. I can say though, that I was really screaming those names at the person who hurt me and betrayed me. I’m not sure he’s the same person now. I apologised to him later... 
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