SKM0619
I have been reading posts on this forum for quite some time, and have actually posted only a few times. But, I am to the point where I need some input from others. 

Here is my story......

DDay was Nov 23rd 2015. I confronted my husband about a suspected affair with a married woman after seeing emails, text message and phone calls. He acknowledged the affair had been going on for 3 years, but that he only slept with her once (she lives about 3 hours away), but that they continued the emotional part of the affair for 3 years. She of course denied it when I spoke to her, but he confessed to family and close friend. I asked him to leave on DDay and we have been separated since.

Initially we had little to no contact, because he would not answer phone calls or texts from me. He said he wanted a divorce but would not file. I eventually filed, which I regret doing, but I honestly thought it would make him get scared and change his mind, which it didn't. Over the course of the next couple of months we would interact briefly. We do not have children so there really was not much we needed to talk about.

In June of 2016 we went to a 3 day intense marriage seminar with other betrayed couples. He had to open up, show feelings and become vulnerable. After that weekend he was a changed man. He said he "finally got it."  He was calling, texting and really making an effort to work on our marriage. He told me he still have love for me and wanted me in his life. But, after about 6 weeks something happened, he became distant again and was unsure if he wanted to continue with the recovery process.

7 weeks went by and no contact on his part. He would not answer phone calls, ignored texts and emails. That same day I went to his house to find out why he was being so cruel to me by ignoring me and he said he didn't know why he was behaving the way he was but that he "needed time to think about things." He handed me the uncontested divorce paperwork that he had finally signed after having them for 4 months. I became furious and ripped them into pieces and told him that I never wanted a divorce and if he wanted to get divorced then he would need to be the one to pursue things.

The conversation was very heated at times, mostly on my part. He told me he still had love for me. He said he thinks about what he did all the time and needs me to know how sorry he is for what he did. He was no longer wearing his wedding ring, and when I asked him if I could have his wedding ring he said he wanted to keep it because it reminded him of what he once had. He said he was not happy in his life and that he was "numb." He has racked up almost 18K in credit card bills and  bought a new 40K truck since the separation and he is struggling financially. Thankfully I do not rely on him financially.

He swears to me has not had contact with the AP since DDay (she did contact him once during our time of trying to reconcile). I still cry ALOT. I struggle some days more then others. I have a TREMENDOUS amount of anger which is very hard for me because I am not an angry person. I have been going to therapy since DDay. I am really trying to work on me because I know that if I am not healthy then I can not move forward. I used to have dreams that he was sleeping with other women before I found out about the affair (woman's intuition). I told him that I know that he doesn't really want a divorce, and I know he still loves me but he is scared, and that I know we will be in each others lives at some point again (woman's intuition).

My question is... how do you know when enough is enough and when is it time to let go?
(sorry this ended up being much longer then I wanted).




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Dirazz
Only you can say when you've had enough. It sounds like your husband is either suffering from shame and guilt or he has reastablished contact with the OW.
But to come out of the marriage counseling session so positively then do a complete 180 all of a sudden is a bit strange. But if there's one think I've learned during my DD 13 months ago is that nobody does or acts like their normal self. Not the BS or the WS. I've heard all say that that's not their normal behavior. This whole affair crap changes us all!
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Fionarob
Yes I can only echo what Dirazz has said here - only you can decide when you have had enough. And if you are waiting for a moment where you are 100% sure what to do, then that moment will probably never come.  I wavered between making my husband leave and letting him have another chance for years. I weighed up the options over and over, I was frightened to be the one to make the decision and I let things carry on for a long time.

I listened to advice from friends, I read a lot, I used this forum, I had counselling.........but in the end it was my decision and mine alone.  I had to reach that point myself.  If you husband is saying he doesn't know what he wants at the moment then it seems you have little choice but to leave him be.  There is no point pushing for him to decide what to do, or forcing him into something he is not committed to.  In the meantime it sounds like you have to get on with your life without him and work on healing your wounds and dealing with the anger as best you can.  It is very unfair to live your life in limbo while he decides what he wants.

I could be completely wrong here - but if he is not living with you then I find it hard to believe there has been no contact after a 3 year affair.  What reason would he have not to make contact with her?  It could be there is still contact, and that is adding to his indecision on what to do.  If he has been out of the affair for as long as you say then he should be coming to some sort of decision by now. 
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SKM0619
I am pretty certain that he is not in contact with the AP, but is anyone ever really sure? I really do feel that he has a tremendous amount of guilt and shame. I asked him why he has never asked me to "forgive him" and his response was because he doesn't feel like he deserved to be forgiven.

I also feel that his parents (even though he is 43 years old) have such a strong hold of him still even as an adult......even though he would never admit to that. They have not encouraged him to try to reconcile with me, and when his mom found out about the marriage weekend she said "make sure she (me) knows that this is only for her benefit and nothing else."

You are so right when you say that nothing about how we act or react is normal.
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Keepabuzz
I asked my wife a few months after d-day why she had never asked to be forgiven. Her answer was similar. "What I did was unforgivable, I know you will never forgive me, and I understand that, I don't deserve forgiveness . I just hope that someday you will be able to get past it, and be happy again."
Male BS, D-day July 2015, trying to stay out of the dark.....
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SKM0619
Thank for the response Fionarob. I have read so much, listened to friends and family and came to the conclusion that it is my decision as to when I am ready to decide how to proceed with my life. I can not believe that I have been living in limbo for so long wanting and waiting for him to make a decision. That really is the wrong thing to do. Another thing for me is that I am someone who likes to have control of certain aspects and this has shown me that I have absolutely no control over him and his decisions.

I am stepping back and am going to let him figure him out while I figure me out. I know this will be very hard, but I told him last night that I would not be going to his place anymore unless I am invited, and that I will not call him or text him unless it is an emergency.

I often wonder if he is still having contact with the AP, and since he was able to hide it for 3 years means he likely can still be hiding it now.
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Fionarob
SKM0619 - Well done for setting some boundaries and telling him you won't be visiting or calling/texting.  You have to start to distance yourself and focus on yourself now.  But the hard thing will be sticking to it!  You have to be really strong now and follow through with what you have said.  Have some ideas in mind on things you can do if you feel the urge to contact him or go and see him.  Hopefully putting a bit of distance between you might help him decide one way or the other what he wants to do.

But you are right, you have no control over his decision in the end so it is best to start living your life and realise that you will be OK if he decides never to come back.  You will have some very difficult days but it will get easier the more you realise you can do it.
If you like to have control then you will come to see that you ARE in control now, of yourself and your life.  You are taking your life back and moving forward, with or without him. 

Of course he could still be in contact with the AP, but that is also something you cannot control.  My h did it for 3 years whilst living with me, so it would be easy to do it while you are separated!  Again, that is out of your control and if he is ambivalent about who to choose, then that is something else he has to decide by himself. 
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Guiltguilt
Keepabuzz wrote:
I asked my wife a few months after d-day why she had never asked to be forgiven. Her answer was similar. "What I did was unforgivable, I know you will never forgive me, and I understand that, I don't deserve forgiveness . I just hope that someday you will be able to get past it, and be happy again."


Exactly.
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Keepabuzz
Guiltguilt wrote:


Exactly.



But I DID forgive her. It still hurts, and the trust isn't 100% back. I don't think I will ever blindly trust her or anyone else for that matter again. Don't give up hope GuiltGuilt.
Male BS, D-day July 2015, trying to stay out of the dark.....
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wolfgrrl
My h has told me numerous times he doesn't deserve my forgiveness. From what I see in here, that is pretty normal from the guilt. I have told him he may not deserve it, but for the sake of both of us, I need to try and give it. Regardless of whether or not things work out. I agree with everything said so far by others. I'm in a similar limbo, so I know how hard it is. But remember not to pressure yourself. Decisions can be made in your own time, there are no deadlines or right or wrong. Just focus on what feels right to you. That will change as time goes on, and that is ok too. You are stronger than you know, hang in there.
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SKM0619
As far as forgiveness is concerned I have forgiven him for the affair. I accept that my behavior during some difficult times could have definitely been different and how I treated him during our 10 year marriage could also have been better. BUT, I will not accept responsibility for him choosing to have the affair.

What I am having the hardest time with now is forgiving him for how he has treated me after the fact. I don't know how someone goes for such long periods of time without speaking, and ignoring phone calls and texts. For me that is very immature and juvenile. I understand he has a lot of guilt and shame and feels he doesn't deserve to be forgiven, but that is something he has to learn to deal with.

It is going to be tough keeping those boundaries in place that I have set....no doubt about it. Learning to let go of control will be tough but I need to do that for my own sanity. I honestly think that I bring on a lot of the craziness in my life because I just don't know how or want to let go of things. I also need to let go of a lot of anger that I have. I am hoping that by not having contact with him that this will help with that as well.

The reason I put off pursuing the divorce from my side was that it didn't feel right. So, if it happens then it will be from him making the decision to do it.

This is the hardest and most painful thing I have ever been though in my life. When is the hurt going to go away??

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Guiltguilt
Keepabuzz wrote:



But I DID forgive her. It still hurts, and the trust isn't 100% back. I don't think I will ever blindly trust her or anyone else for that matter again. Don't give up hope GuiltGuilt.


I don't think I ever trusted properly again after the boot was on the other foot. I'm conscious of the drastic rip-off that is for us. I certainly never thought I'd be here. Hope for us is disappearing by the day, after she was really triggered and refused to go to MC again. I decided a couple of weeks ago that I wasn't going to bash myself up over this anymore, and try and live a life, as she has. Hence my absence here.

I still don't know how I can honestly answer a prospective date when they ask what happened to finish the marriage, and expect them to take a chance. Mind you, It's not happening anytime soon. I miss my wife.

Earlier on in this forum, there were posts talking about WSs being able to forgive ourselves before healing can really begin. I don't really know how that works, but I know I never want to be in a car with three gas bottles and a cigarette lighter again. If pushing on with life is the action of forgiving myself, then I'm willing to take the body and hope the mind follows.
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Fionarob
Guiltguilt - I would like to respond to your point above about dating in the future, and your question of who is likely to give you a chance.....

I am a BS who has suffered the worst 3 years of my life because of infidelity.  I have come 'out the other side', we are separated and I have begun dating.  Now here is the irony - the man I am dating had an affair.  Most people would probably think I am crazy to be dating someone who was unfaithful, given what I have been through.  But here are the reasons I am willing to take the chance.

He was completely up front and honest with me, before we even met for our first date, he told me the reasons his marriage had ended.  He said he understood if I didn't want to meet him, he let me decide.
He completely accepts responsibility for his affair and the choices he made.
He feels total remorse for the pain he caused his wife and his children.
He has learnt from his mistakes - eg. not communicating to his wife that he was unhappy, having poor boundaries, not considering the consequences of his actions, not thinking about anyone else but himself.
He answers any questions I have without hesitation and says he knows how damaging lies can be.
He is well and truly 'out of the fog' and has had 2 years to live with the devastation that his affair caused to so many people.

As far as I can see, I am taking a risk with him, but probably no more than I would be risking being hurt by dating somebody else.  When we choose to be vulnerable, to let ourselves fall in love etc. we are taking a risk, no matter what that person's history is.  Anybody can cheat, whether they have done it before or not.  In some ways, I would like to believe that he wouldn't do it again because he has learnt how damaging it is.  But nobody can predict the future - that's one thing I have certainly learnt!!

I admire his honesty with me, he didn't have to tell me everything he has.  It is ironic that we have met each other and bring an opposite side of the story to the relationship.  He has been more honest and open than my WS was ever prepared to be and that was one of the things that attracted me to him.  Maybe I am mad....only time will tell!!  But this person I have met is so unbelievably grateful that I am giving him that chance, and he has earned the chance that I gave to my WS ten times over, and he never took it.  It really is a bizarre situation.  But one that maybe gives you a bit of hope!  One day, when you are ready, there will be someone wiling to take a chance with you. 
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wolfgrrl
Although I am no where near that point in my situation yet, I have to agree with Fionarob on this. I've thought about what it would be like to date again. I hope to never be at that point, but I realize it is a possibility. And in a way, perhaps someone who has been down this road before and has worked through their own demons and knows the dangers and knows what the pain looks like when you hurt someone that way would be more understanding of the scars I have now and the trust issues and everything else that goes with this damage. I always believed in "once a cheater always a cheater." But now in the middle of this storm, I have started to realize that doesn't have to be the case. If you learn from this, do the hard work to heal the brokenness that led you down that path, you will come out a better person and someone who does deserve another chance. Even though I always believed "once a cheater, always a cheater" I also truly believe that everyone deserves a second chance, if they are willing to learn from their past and grow in the future. That is why I am still here. Trying to give my h that second chance that he does not believe he deserves. But he does, and so do you. And you are on the right path. I hope my h gets where you are so we do have a chance. I hope you heal and can forgive yourself and can give yourself a second chance even if your wife cannot.
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