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anthropoidape
I have had that conversation. When you describe your world to a smart, sensitive, compassionate person with plenty of life experience, who has been through a great deal of the up and down of life, and that person says, "that's not much of a life", it is confronting. Somebody with no agenda who would just like to see you happier.

I am not swayed by the opinions of others exactly, but you have to ask yourself these questions sometimes.
Maybe it is okay, maybe it will be okay.

BS, d-day Feb 2017, 16 mth affair.
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Keepabuzz
Laurajean83 wrote:



As the WS the concept of "how would it feel if I did it to you?"  seems completely impossible to process.  I know for me i give answers that reflect what I know should be true but my brain is completely broken to the concept of it.  

I had justified so much of how I could have an affair and still be a loving wife that the thought of role reversal puts my mind into a bit of a sympathetic state towards the WS.  I know that is super messed up thinking but I can't help it.  Logical side says I know I would be devastated but now corrupt brain says 'but you know he would still love you and had his reasons'.   

Anyways mostly I am saying that for me that question is impossible to wrap my head around.  

The fact does still remain that you are strong for staying, and trying and fighting.  Very strong, admirably strong, like the be proud of yourself for who you are proving yourself to be strong!   (All things I wish my H knew, but I say them and they usually just bounce off) 


I appreciate your response, and your words solidify my hypothesis. The WS will ever understand the depth, the severity, or far reaching into every single aspect of the BS’s world this injury is. This is not a dig at the WS’s. It is simply reality. The vast majority of BS’s would never have an affair under any circumstances. I am one of those. Where as it seems to me that most WS will say at some point (or many points) under the right circumstances you would too. It’s simple not true. I don’t think this is the WS making an excuse per say (although for some it is). I think it’s a different world view. For those that have affairs, it’s not viewed as “that big a deal”, I know that all WS get a taste of how big a deal it is “after” the truth comes out, but still will never have a real grasp of it. Where as those of us in the world that would never, it is “the biggest deal”, and we in this group walk through life assuming that everyone feels the same way. Likely because everyone says they do, and take vows to that effect. But it just isn’t true. 

My point is that if I were to have an affair, it wouldn’t destroy my wife as hers has destroyed me. Certainly not after she had hers. But even before. It would have hurt her, no doubt. I honestly think she expected it to some extent. Due to her childhood and first marriage. But no where near the devastation she has caused me. I think she always assumed that I would leave her one day, and she subconsciously created a self fulfilling  prophecy.  It almost worked.

She actually told me a few months after d-day “I never knew how much you loved me until I saw how much I hurt you. I have made you as broken as me”. What a kick in the teeth. I had nothing but try to make her happy for so many years, but in the end she just wouldn’t allow herself to be happy. Now she has it all
figured out and I’m the broken one. 
Male BS, D-day July 2015, trying to stay out of the dark.....
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Keepabuzz
anthropoidape wrote:
I have had that conversation. When you describe your world to a smart, sensitive, compassionate person with plenty of life experience, who has been through a great deal of the up and down of life, and that person says, "that's not much of a life", it is confronting. Somebody with no agenda who would just like to see you happier.

I am not swayed by the opinions of others exactly, but you have to ask yourself these questions sometimes.


Exactly...
Male BS, D-day July 2015, trying to stay out of the dark.....
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Ginger
I think the conversation you described goes for the wives who stayed too. I know I've thought all those thoughts.  
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Trinity
Keepabuzz]


Everything you have written above, I could have written myself save for the children and gender.  Especially "WTF is wrong with you?  You deserve so much better ..."   I am in full agreement that it IS the worst thing that has ever and will ever be done to me in my whole life by the person I love more than anything.  It's beyond horrific and the pain is to the darkest depths of the soul, and I am still in the marriage.  

If I may offer you what I use for myself on "punishment".  Although I have had conversations with my husband about his infidelity I have not punished him either.  However, I wholeheartedly believe that the "punishment' - if you will ... is NOT between my husband and I BUT between Himself and GOD.  That is where I leave that.  

Perhaps you did stay because of your children and if you did, there is no fault in that and it certainly does not make you weak.   Also, I have told some people about my "situation" and everyone has been supportive and graciously understanding.  Someday... if you decide to disclose, you may be surprised.  

This is NOT an easy journey and, at times, I want to curl up in a ball and hide but either way I still need to go through this, .. keyword being THROUGH.  

AND even if it is not any consolation, You are NOT weak, I am sure most would agree with me here.  

"T"



BS - DDay July 2017

O GOD, take me, break me, make me. 
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Keepabuzz
Trinity wrote:
Keepabuzz]


Everything you have written above, I could have written myself save for the children and gender.  Especially "WTF is wrong with you?  You deserve so much better ..."   I am in full agreement that it IS the worst thing that has ever and will ever be done to me in my whole life by the person I love more than anything.  It's beyond horrific and the pain is to the darkest depths of the soul, and I am still in the marriage.  

If I may offer you what I use for myself on "punishment".  Although I have had conversations with my husband about his infidelity I have not punished him either.  However, I wholeheartedly believe that the "punishment' - if you will ... is NOT between my husband and I BUT between Himself and GOD.  That is where I leave that.  

Perhaps you did stay because of your children and if you did, there is no fault in that and it certainly does not make you weak.   Also, I have told some people about my "situation" and everyone has been supportive and graciously understanding.  Someday... if you decide to disclose, you may be surprised.  

This is NOT an easy journey and, at times, I want to curl up in a ball and hide but either way I still need to go through this, .. keyword being THROUGH.  

AND even if it is not any consolation, You are NOT weak, I am sure most would agree with me here.  

"T"





Thank you for your words of encouragement. 

I grew up a child of multiple divorces. 12 schools, and 2 states a 12 hour drive apart before I got out of high school. It was rough. My childhood dream was not to be a soldier (even though I became one), or fire fighter, or police man. My dream was to have my own home, that no one could make me leave. Pretty sad when I type it out. I had zero control of my life growing up. So when I graduated high school, I moved out. I was 17. 100% on my own. No one would ever have that kind of power over me again, and now here is sit. Destroyed by someone I love. She is the only person on this planet that had the power to destroy me.  I gave it to her, and she used it. 

The last east thing I wanted was for my kids to have the childhood I had. 2 of my children are from my wife’s first marriage, and at the time of her affair were still minors. If I had left, I had zero rights to them. I couldn’t abandon them the way their father had. Now they are both adults (legally, lol). My other 2 are mine biologically. Very few know about this. I hate the word stepchild. That is what I was. My moms baggage to be tolerated. They are all my children, and they know it. 

When you have kids, everyone says “I would do ANYTHING for my kids”. Well, I have been forced to put my money where my mouth is. My a$$ is cashing that check my mouth and heart wrote all those years ago. 
Male BS, D-day July 2015, trying to stay out of the dark.....
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Keepabuzz
Anyone feel like just going away for a few days, all alone, and just getting completely plastered. Like lock the car keys in a time lock safe, and cut off all communication avenues?  

My Dad has a place out in the woods. He is gone all winter to Florida.  I can use it whenever I want. I so want to get plenty of beer, maybe some whiskey, plenty of food that is awful for me and just be by myself for a few days. 

The tough part is that if I did, my wife would flip out and think I was going to go there and eat a bullet. So, I wouldn’t be able to just unplug. She would likely show up, just to make sure I was still breathing. 

I haven’t had a break from all this. I really felt I couldn’t, my kids needed me home when my world dissolved. 
Male BS, D-day July 2015, trying to stay out of the dark.....
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Laurajean83
Keepabuzz wrote:


The vast majority of BS’s would never have an affair under any circumstances. I am one of those. Where as it seems to me that most WS will say at some point (or many points) under the right circumstances you would too. It’s simple not true. I don’t think this is the WS making an excuse per say (although for some it is). I think it’s a different world view. For those that have affairs, it’s not viewed as “that big a deal”



I very respectfully disagree with this statement.  I think that to assume people who have affairs are "those" type that would, but "us" BS would never ever have done that.  I believe that it is hard to know what anyone would do given various circumstances.  I don't say this for justification but because of it can create a bit of an underlying (possibly unconscious) us vs them attitude which is not helpful to working through something together.  

Also although my mind can't begin to comprehend what being the BS would feel like, before all this happened I never thought it was 'no big deal.'  It is amazing how justification can change and warp your perceptions to a wrong view.  Reading a book called...  mistakes were made but not by me.  It has been really interesting as to how the mind processes reality. 

Anyways just my opinion. 
WW, Dday 7 months ago

The heart is deceitful above all things and beyond cure.  Who can understand it.  Jer 17:9
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Trinity
Laurajean83
Also although my mind can't begin to comprehend what being the BS would feel like[/QUOTE
 wrote:


Is it absolutely 100% TRUE that you can not begin to comprehend what it feels like to be betrayed by your LOVER ???
EMPATHY ???  

Also, I commend your courage posting here in the (BS) space.  

"T"
BS - DDay July 2017

O GOD, take me, break me, make me. 
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Keepabuzz
Laurajean83 wrote:


I very respectfully disagree with this statement.  I think that to assume people who have affairs are "those" type that would, but "us" BS would never ever have done that.  I believe that it is hard to know what anyone would do given various circumstances.  I don't say this for justification but because of it can create a bit of an underlying (possibly unconscious) us vs them attitude which is not helpful to working through something together.  

Also although my mind can't begin to comprehend what being the BS would feel like, before all this happened I never thought it was 'no big deal.'  It is amazing how justification can change and warp your perceptions to a wrong view.  Reading a book called...  mistakes were made but not by me.  It has been really interesting as to how the mind processes reality. 

Anyways just my opinion. 


I’m 100% fine with disagreement from WS as well as BS. We all have our own opinions. 

My comparison of big deal/not a big deal was an oversimplification to make my point. 

You actually stated that “it’s hard to know what one would anyone would do given various circumstances”. This is exactly what I’m talking about. Actually there are no circumstances where I would have an affair. It’s really that simple for me, and I think it is for many others. I am actually in a pretty high ranking leadership position, and have been for many years. I have had plenty of opportunities over the years. I’m fairly attractive, very successful, good person, funny. I’m actually a catch, in my opinion ☺️. I travel often for work, the chance of me getting caught is literally almost zero. I have never and will never have an affair, period. This ties back to different views. I don’t hear many (any) BS’s saying well under the right circumstances I would “X”.  But I do hear many WS’s say “you never know what you would do under “x” circumstances”. The difference is that I do. I do know. I know I wouldn’t have an affair. I’m not trying to kick any WS, it’s just a statement of fact. I was in the same unhappy marriage as my wife was, and I had much more opportunity than my wife had to cheat, but I didn’t, and I wouldn’t. I’m not wired that way. It’s just that simple. 

Also, I meant in no way to start an us vs them conflict. But there are those who had an affair and those who didn’t. This is also a statement of fact, not opinion.
Male BS, D-day July 2015, trying to stay out of the dark.....
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anthropoidape
Yes. It's the fundamental point and I agree. 

Also, it can be broken down quite a bit. I would not have sex with someone other than my wife under any circumstances. Totally separately, I would not lie to her. Totally separately, I would not go down the road to emotional intimacy with someone else. Totally separately, I would not become involved emotionally with someone else without first separating from my wife. 

I wouldn't do any of those things.  So even if I am wrong about one or two of them, I am sure I am not wrong about all of them.

Also... it is not like I had a charmed childhood or anything. We had no money. I had a violent father who neglected me. Later I had four stepfathers over my childhood years. I am not oblivious to the hard knocks people experience. With all that... I still wouldn't be vulnerable to any of that.

And... it is not like I have weak emotions or lack passion. I feel as deeply as anyone, more than some, and have a very strong sex drive. 

Even so... would never lie and cheat.

And... even if all of the above is wrong as far as my makeup goes, I can still say I would never do it because I would never risk my children's wellbeing that way. Ever. It is like saying that in the right circumstances maybe I'd drop my 6yo off a cliff. 
Maybe it is okay, maybe it will be okay.

BS, d-day Feb 2017, 16 mth affair.
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Keepabuzz
anthropoidape wrote:
Yes. It's the fundamental point and I agree. 

Also, it can be broken down quite a bit. I would not have sex with someone other than my wife under any circumstances. Totally separately, I would not lie to her. Totally separately, I would not go down the road to emotional intimacy with someone else. Totally separately, I would not become involved emotionally with someone else without first separating from my wife. 

I wouldn't do any of those things.  So even if I am wrong about one or two of them, I am sure I am not wrong about all of them.


Exactly my point. As usual, Anthro can put down in 3 sentences what I struggle to get across in a 3 chapter book of a post. Well put. 
Male BS, D-day July 2015, trying to stay out of the dark.....
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anthropoidape
Keepabuzz wrote:

I was in the same unhappy marriage as my wife was, and I had much more opportunity than my wife had to cheat, but I didn’t, and I wouldn’t. I’m not wired that way. It’s just that simple. 


Yep.
Maybe it is okay, maybe it will be okay.

BS, d-day Feb 2017, 16 mth affair.
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Ginger
Exactly.   Same marriage.  He cheated.  I didn't.   And wouldn't.   Couldn't.   
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Keepabuzz
Again, my comments were not meant to be a dig at WS’s. I just think the view of the world is different for WS’s and BS’s. 

To the point of the WS not being able to really get the depth of the destruction they have caused their BS, it is along the lines of being run over by a car. If you’re the one that was run over, and your stuck in a wheelchair, and need help to go to the bathroom, it takes years for you to walk again, you get severely depressed, etc. it’s very hard. It’s humiliating. Someone that hasn’t been in those shoes can’t really get it. They can get “some” understanding that it really sucks. But they will never truly understand. 

One of the hardest parts for me as a
BS is that the person who is supposed to protect you, and love you the most, is the one who ran you over with the car, on purpose. Then explained to you how it was your fault. When that didn’t work they explained that even though they were wrong, if you had been in their shoes, you would have done the same thing. 

I get the need to defend. But I never meant to attack. The reality is just very different for WS’s and BS’s. There are those that have affairs and those that never would. That is just a fact, not my opinion.

Many years ago, way before my wife’s affair, she was very depressed. I was fed up. I told her she needed to get help or I was gone. That is when she told me about her childhood sexual abuse. Not long after that. She actually told me to go sleep
woth whoever I wanted to, she didn’t care. I had a “Free Pass”. I had no interest in that. It was against my beliefs, my morals, even with permission. It’s just my moral code. I won’t compromise it, for anything. 
Male BS, D-day July 2015, trying to stay out of the dark.....
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