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Kalmarjan
I see what you mean. Was it really soon?

Cause the one thing is... for the first while after your affair ends, Nd you actually are completely no contact (that means not even checking his status on Facebook. Because you've blocked him, all his friends, and any way he could see what you post...) you will NOT be able to trust your feelings. I don't think so anyway.

The reason, I remember being torn between my AP and my wife in the beginning. I mean, like feelings... So here I legitimately had some about of concern my AP was hurt. Okay. I won't lie... I was concerned, I felt really responsible for her misery, as it were... (there were many times I had called my AP and talked to her, and she would literally drive it into me how much she was hurt that I went back to my wife.)

But, it was that one day my wife turned to me, as we were about to shower in my appartment.... and she asked me simply, "do you care how she feels?"

I couldn't lie. I did. But, then my wife told me that she doesn't care how the AP feels. How about how she (my wife) felt?

You know, I had not ever thought of that. I guess I knew it, but that dumbly obvious bit of info there.... It really slapped me awake. I needed to care about who mattered... And that was my wife. Who, wanted a relationship with me despite my foolish judgement and blundering through a situation with someone who now was now legitimately still trying to guilt me into casting doubt on my relationship and commitment to my wife.

That was the moment my affair fog, finally lifted. I texted the AP on the spot, the split second after my wife was finished what she was saying, I was already hitting send on the text to the AP to cease and go no contact.

But this was like, 4-6 weeks after I broke up with the AP... And I left to move in with her, like a moron!

So, feeling? Don't trust that right now. Logic, truth, and soul searching is the way until you figure yourself out. The reason? I think that a change in scenery may not solve your problem. I'm no expert, but I once thought as you did. I thought that hey, I screwed up, married... Lol. Then I really really screwed up and had an affair. So, I'm going to take what I've learned... And apply that to the new situation.... But, have I learned anything? Do I know why I cheated, or am I hurt gonna believe the justification I sold myself? What guarantee do I have that the third times gonna be the charm? You would have two failed attempts at relationships... By your admission. . But hopefully this third time will be better, assuming that you are right that these situations have nothing to do with you...

Like I said, I was there too. But, I realized, (with help from. Hugh school friends I haven't talked to in ages!) that I actually had a pattern of being a nice guy. That guy that always did things to make everyone happy but me. I came last in some equation... Mainly the largest ones... Like where I live. Etc.

That caused me a lot of stress, so I did some self work. Now I understand how I came to get to a decision... To cheat. I understand why and what had to happened for me to go there...

After that, it's hard, but easy to fix. Easy to admit... Hard to fix. Thing is, I worked on me. I needed to help my wife feel like she could be safe, and to do that, I had to guarantee that I would never do that again. I was done with empty promises and lies. So, I didn't give my word yet. I did the work.

Now, I believe I would never cheat again. Not like before, where I just assumed... But for real. I know that I could never be that guy that breaks someone's heart in to a million pieces just so I could avoid having the sh*tty conversations that drive relationships. Those uncomfortable ones where you might admit you're bored. Don't feel affections, feel. Left out, etc.

So, I was that guy. I didn't realize that I was hurting my wife by not being honest with her like, 5 years ago. I could have spoken up 10 years ago about some things that were major that I just "let go".

But you know what is weird? I love my wife. I always have. I was mad at her though. That's what's weird. Even through my affair, I didint stop loving my wife. I certainly told myself and made myself believe it, but here's the thing... My AP always got mad because I would do those things you do automatically for your loved one... The one you do without thinking...

Give you an example...

I had to buy my car from my wife. It was both ours but insurance and other weirdness meant I owned the newer car, and my wife owned the one that I wanted to take.

So I had to buy the car, get documents to the DMV, do the switch... Etc.

Lojg story short, there were like 10 other hoops that I had to do, including my wife had to sign over temporary power of attorney so I could sell myself the car in her name, all because she (rightlyy so!) didn't want to sign and take her time to do it for me.

So, all this is done, I wait at DMV, I run around and do all this... And yes the AP was in tow... I do it, and come to the point where I have to switch license plates on the car... (don't ask... It's the rules... So many veaurocratic stuff here)

Si, I take the plate off my wife's car and put it on mine. Since I have my tools handy, I put my plate onto my wife's care. So, we have now legally switched ownership of the cars. But, of course, I did all the work.

So, my AP flipped. I didn't understand, ever, why until just recently when it hit me... I always would run around like that for my wife. And, I put the plate on the car. Without even thinking about it, because it is just how I would do it.

My AP wanted it like I would just toss the license plate on the floor and leave. Screw her! My wife didn't even have a screwdriver. I had to take the plate off any way screws were already in my hand. To me, no brained... Just put the plate on the car.

I'm not rambling, I promise there is a point...

All of the feelings I had in the fog... All the "I don't love her" and "I don't feel it." etc... I felt all of those. I straight out swore to my AP, my mother, my family, my wife that I couldn't come back. There would be no way. Yet, Here I am.

Not from fear, lonely, etc... But because I didn't believe the hype anymore.

Anyway, all situations may be different. I agree. There are those out there that are special and it was meant to be. My mother and father in law are actually that couple... Well... They can't stand each other over 45 years of marriage but...

All of that changed because I started asking myself why. I think it is so important. A lot of things get easier once you understand. Then you can make your decision with your actual heart, values, and with a healthy frame of mind opposed to when you are in an uncertain time, coming out of a really traumatic breakup with your AP (because my God, it is really hard, especially if you thought your AP was your soul mate!) You've also got the addiction of the excitement, naughtiness, and danger associated with that relationship.

Work on yourself and give it time. You'll get there. I'm not gonna lie, it really sucks, but you'll be better for it.
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Robin1971
So don't lead him on, tell him exactly what you are telling us, you have no feelings for him, you want out, there is no hope. Not being mean, but not sugar coating it. There really is no need for further discussion right? What are you asking for help on? Be honest, don't lead him on. 1,2,3 you are done you have said it numerous times in your posts, you have been done for years, he disgust you, or makes you cringe. So stop dragging him down. Let him go find someone who wants him who desires him. You go work on you, find you. You deserve to be happy too, don't prolong this anymore than you have been. I don't really see you asking the same thing, well really repeating the same thing over and over again on this post is going to change anything.
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Anna26
Cfd wrote:
I've been working on myself for sometime now: IC, journaling, finding this & other marriage helper/builder forums& websites, talking with friends. I will continue to do all these things & agreed to go to mc with my H to talk through 'what went wrong'. We've discussed before and although helpful, it's what we do going forward that matters. And for me, I have to find the 'desire' within myself to 'work' on the marriage. Right now, I don't want to. I don't want to be around him or spend time with him. Agreeing to see a therapist together is the most I can offer him. My feelings for him eroded over our 20 year marriage, I don't think I ever woulda had the A in the first place if I had still loved him. At then time, I was too confused & unsure of what was going on. Sex with my H was always a chore, something I did to make him happy. Long before the A started, I became less & less interested, by the time the A started, I wanted nothing to do with him physically, and I still don't. The thought makes me cringe. Since the A ended, I can't even sleep in the same bed with him. To me, the ending of the A gave me the clarity to see that I want more out of life. As horrible as it sounds, during the A I was 'having my cake & eating it too'. My need for stability & security was being met by my H & my need for passion & fun was being met by AP. now that AP is gone, security & stability are not enough for me. And H was never met my need for passion, not for 20-+ years. And the 'fun' went out of him years & years & years ago. Now I don't want him to be the one meeting those needs. I realize I sound extremely selfish, but it's how I feel. I've read a lot about mid life crisis and think that may fit me as well but it's been going on for 3 + years with no end in sight



Just wondered if you think your husband feels the same way?  If he feels there is no passion and no fun and spontaneity anymore?  I guess you wouldn't know that unless you asked him.  But I ask because I've been married for 29 years and I feel that my husband has never been able to connect with me on an emotional level.  And I also feel the same way you do about sex, I could happily live without it because to me it lacks that emotional connection that I need. Without that it's like being expected to flip things on and off like a switch.  I've tried explaining this many times but it just doesn't seem to sink in.  He keeps his feelings locked inside and has great difficulty sharing them with me, so how then am I supposed to feel wanted and loved enough to flip the switch on? 

I don't feel that any one person can fulfill all the needs of another, we are individuals and so different.    Maybe sometimes we just have to accept people just can't be everything we want and make the most of who they are. Perhaps I am too tolerant but then again maybe the fact that I am so tolerant is part of the reason we HAVE been married for 29 years, I don't know, just makes me wonder sometimes, where a lot of marriages would be without it. 
I am just musing here...

I think so many things can come between the two people in a marriage, work and stress, then the kids come along and life is so hectic because everything is geared to them and finally, when they are old enough to be independent and self supportive, and you are looking forward to to becoming a couple again, and more ME time,  wham..it's the turn of the parents (in my case)who are by now becoming increasingly frail.  Where did all that time go, what happened to those fun days out you used to have on your own?   Why does everyone want a piece of you, all at once?  Why is there never enough hours in the day or days in the week?  I've got to thinking all this can drive a wedge between you, you each forget who the other is, they turn into this person you don't know anymore with so many responsibilities and never any time for you.  No wonder we think all the love has gone and it really isn't worth it. 
But is it really not worth it, and how do you know unless you give it time?  I think Kal is right when he says the feelings you have now could become very different later. 

Lately I've felt that I've never had my chance for the 'just us' bit of our marriage, because now 'we' are 'three' in a very different sense!  And I keep wishing I had that chance to know what it would be like, just us two.  And I don't know if I will ever be given that 'time' and that makes me very sad.
 
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Kalmarjan
I've come to understand that it's impossible to feel like you are madly in love all the time. It goes in cycles. It's quite natural that some periods of your marriage life you won't feel it.

It was explained to me like this,by reading Gary Chapman...

The four season of marriage... Basically your marriage is in a changing state. It's easy when you first start out (spring into summer) but then fades (fall) and outright dies out (winter) but this is a good thing, because most healthy couples are prompted to renew their marriages by working together (spring) so the marriage improves.

Unfortunately some spouses find themselves looking elsewhere during winter (I am guilty of this!) because it seems easier... But it unfortunately makes the experience completely like having the worst winter you can imagine.

I highly recommend the two books by Gary Chapman - The 5 languages of Love and The Four Seasons of Marriage.

When I read them, I was blown away by how much it mirrored what our situation was like. It even had the scenario in it where he had a guy in his office confess to "loving" someone else, but having it not true. A real eye opener.

If you are serious about working on yourself, give those books a read, and it may put things into perspective for you.

I don't believe anyone when they tell me that for 20 years they were duped into a loveless marriage. Okay, maybe of they were coerced into marriage, but that's a whole other issue there. But after reading I was woken up to how things can progress to where you feel like that.
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Anna26

I think you are responding to Cfd anyway,  but have to say I agree with you Kal about the book. I have actually read the first book by Gary Chapman, it's a brilliant, easy read and I'd recommend it also....

I don't know about the second, not read it yet, can I borrow your copy? [biggrin]
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Kalmarjan
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Kal, don't you think people can outgrow each other? The people we were in our early 20s is not the same people we are in our 40s & 50s. People grow apart, people change. I've heard of the 5 languages book but have not read it. I'm assuming it helps you understand how you need to be loved. I get that but I have to want him to be the one to love me


I think people can drift, sure. But, then again, throwing in an affair into the mix is no real way of knowing, right? It obfuscates the issue. Throws in a bunch of variables that make it very hard for you to understand your true feelings. 

Hell, I've been there. All of those things you feel towards your husband? I was there. When you speak of emotion, don't discount a guy either. For YEARS I didn't feel the emotional connection to my wife. I had to turn to fantasy in order to perform. 

Today I STILL struggle with that. I know that I love my wife, and that I want to be with her, but there are times that I am not attracted 100% to her. But, that is because I looked elsewhere to get that stimulation and emotion. That is, I turned to porn, and fantasizing about women. This was over YEARS. (at least the last 8 years since my son was born.) 

The book I am suggesting doesn't just help you understand how you need to be loved, but how he needs to be loved. It helps you understand that in laymans terms there are usually 5 things that people want and desire. These are: Words of Affirmation, Acts of Service, Recieving Gifts, Quality time, and Physical Touch. 

Everyone has these to some extent, and its the ability to be able to communicate those needs that enables couples to be able to grow together. When I read the 5 love languages, it literally changed how I thought of the whole situation. 

You know, another great book from Gary Chapman about your situation would be A Marriage Carol... it's set like A Christmas Carol, except its about a couple that has been married for 20 years and are struggling with falling out of love with each other. Its on my reading list. (I have something to the tune of 20 books on the go, so I am sure I'll get to reading it eventually LOL)


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Kalmarjan
Anna26 wrote:

I think you are responding to Cfd anyway,  but have to say I agree with you Kal about the book. I have actually read the first book by Gary Chapman, it's a brilliant, easy read and I'd recommend it also....

I don't know about the second, not read it yet, can I borrow your copy? [biggrin]

Ha ha if I could only send it out. 

It is really cheap as a Kindle book though... Also, like I said above, he has another book called "A Marriage Carol" that seems to fit that situation of drifting to a T...
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Guiltguilt
Gee whiz, Kal.
Bought the e-book today and have devoured it. No wonder she's out on a date tonight (not with me). I would never have thought of anything in the book, and she tried everything with me over the years. The best I could do was get resentful over the gifts constantly coming in from overseas, her parents and sister.

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Kalmarjan
Guiltguilt wrote:
Gee whiz, Kal.
Bought the e-book today and have devoured it. No wonder she's out on a date tonight (not with me). I would never have thought of anything in the book, and she tried everything with me over the years. The best I could do was get resentful over the gifts constantly coming in from overseas, her parents and sister.



Which book? If it's the 5 love languages yeah I totally know what you mean. I had so many Ah ha! And oh Duh! Moments reading that book.
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Guiltguilt
Yes. 5 love languages. I bought the one for men. Yes. Lots of those moments, that's for sure. Lots of no wonder....moments.
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awaggoner1999
The books are great. Went to his seminar too. Sadly My WS never cracked the books...I had mine tabbed and worn out...as I attempted multiple times to fit his expressed needs. Lo and behold he had others that were never expressed... So I ceaselessly failed...
He even insisted we each have our own set...thanks for sharing...books are good advice...
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TimT
A good book to go along with The 5 Love Languages by Gary Chapmen is His Needs, Her Needs by Willard Harley. Same idea of understanding connection from the spouse's perspective. Chapman's book zero's in on the methodology of communicating love, Harley's book focuses on how the various relationship needs (affection, communication, sex, finances, domestic support, etc.) are valued differently by men/women.
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Kalmarjan
^^^ THIS ^^^

AND...
/DROPSMIKE
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