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Heidi
I think Guilt has put it better than I could. After an affair the WS tries desperately to remain the hero of their story. And there's a reason for that. To truly look inside yourself and say what you did to another human being was a terrible thing, and even worse you did it for your own pleasure must be very difficult to admit to. I'm not hearing you take full responsibility for that.

Rationalising an affair means you haven't yet done the work you need to on yourself. Whether you stay or go has no effect on that.

But if I read the threads above, there's a lot of 'me' 'I' and explaining how the WS suppressed their needs etc. That's what I was trying to talk about.

If you want to leave, then you should, I don't think anybody should stay in an unhappy marriage. But in the midst of this there is a person who has already been hurt badly. And I can't tell you how painful it is to offer up reconciliation and have it continually thrown back in your face over an extended period of time. Your BS may not feel the same, this is purely from my point of view.

I suppress my needs every day, sometimes I want to run away and pretend this never happened. Sometimes I want to do something very bad to the OW or my BS. But I live in a world that has rules, and more importantly I have people I love that would be hurt by my actions (including my BS). Do I feel resentful against them because I can't do what I want? No. Because these are MY decisions, the way deciding to stay with my WS and forgive him is MY decision. I don't expect to have my cake and eat it too

Apologies for the harshness of my words. I'm really impressed at you being so honest here, and would urge you to continue to do so. But with great kindness, the way a WS mind works after an affair isn't always helpful to their future recovery.
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blythespirit
Heidi, beautifully and gently put and spot on. Guilt, as always I so hope that my WS makes it to the place where he can see as you do. Only then, will real healing happen. And I do hope for you as well, that your wife reaches a place where she's willing to let you back in to her heart.
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wolfgrrl
I'm struggling with the WS feeling of disconnect from the marriage as a justification too. I know my marriage was in a less than perfect place when all this happened. My husband and I weren't giving each other or the marriage the attention it deserved. We have young kids, jobs, financial problems, all the typical problems and excuses of folks our age. I was feeling neglected and unappreciated too. Yet, I didn't go out and have an affair. Not even close. I didn't even find friendship or companionship in someone else. I accepted it as a part of marriage. There are bad times that you just have to wade through knowing there are better times ahead. As the saying goes "this too shall pass." My husband, instead of talking to me or trying to show me more affection to bring us back together, chose to go find "love" elsewhere and destroy me. DESTROY me, DESTROY our family. That may not be the case in all affairs, but I have a feeling many will feel the same. This isn't meant as an attack on WS's. But, the whole notion that you were driven to this by actions or inactions of your spouse, well, quite frankly it is a line of bs to me. You had a lot of other choices in how to handle those feelings of detachment and loneliness. Our marriage had problems, yes. But that is in no way at all a justification or excuse or even explanation for what he did. To me, it boils down to maturity. I saw the problems and faced them with maturity. He saw the problems and acted like a spoiled child not getting his way. So what do I want from my WS? I want him to grow up and start facing problems like an adult.
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Negarcia
wolfgrrl wrote:
I'm struggling with the WS feeling of disconnect from the marriage as a justification too. I know my marriage was in a less than perfect place when all this happened. My husband and I weren't giving each other or the marriage the attention it deserved. We have young kids, jobs, financial problems, all the typical problems and excuses of folks our age. I was feeling neglected and unappreciated too. Yet, I didn't go out and have an affair. Not even close. I didn't even find friendship or companionship in someone else. I accepted it as a part of marriage. There are bad times that you just have to wade through knowing there are better times ahead. As the saying goes "this too shall pass." My husband, instead of talking to me or trying to show me more affection to bring us back together, chose to go find "love" elsewhere and destroy me. DESTROY me, DESTROY our family. That may not be the case in all affairs, but I have a feeling many will feel the same. This isn't meant as an attack on WS's. But, the whole notion that you were driven to this by actions or inactions of your spouse, well, quite frankly it is a line of bs to me. You had a lot of other choices in how to handle those feelings of detachment and loneliness. Our marriage had problems, yes. But that is in no way at all a justification or excuse or even explanation for what he did. To me, it boils down to maturity. I saw the problems and faced them with maturity. He saw the problems and acted like a spoiled child not getting his way. So what do I want from my WS? I want him to grow up and start facing problems like an adult.


Wolfgrrl
I understand, it's crazy to know that running away is easier.the problems will get worse not go away. Same with our marriage it wasn't perfect but if he would of just talked to me. I think about how much effort it took to start something new and keep up with the lies. Why couldn't that effort be put into making our marriage better? I don't understand it either. My husbands affair is emotional and physical and even though he told her he can't do it anymore , I have a feeling he will see her again. He is mourning the loss, he was supposed to be with her Saturday but he ended up coming home which surprised me. I didn't expect that he would because he was supposed to be with her. I hope he turns over a new leaf but I'm scared to ask him because I'm afraid he will change his mind if I say anything. I'm sorry it's super hard but we are strong. We can do this with out them if we need to.
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wolfgrrl
Negarcia,

I thought about you this weekend and wondered how things went for you. I am glad to hear he came home. Maybe he is turning a corner and starting to realize his choices have been stupid. I'm starting to get angrier at the waiting game. My husband is home, he says the affair is over, and I believe him. But he still talks to her. We had a lunch date on Friday. It was nice. He's in a better mood at home and we kiss goodnight and call each other hun and babe like always. And yet, he still hasn't given me his final decision on whether he is staying or going. And he still won't sleep in bed with me. The mixed signals are starting to feel like too much. I've told my support circle that I am giving him until September to get through this "depression" or whatever it is and figure out what he wants. But as the days go on, I'm not sure I will have the stamina to wait that long. I pray he will make the decision sooner. But he needs to find a job first. Its like he has found this new normal for us, this coexisting but sort of still as husband and wife but without the intimacy. God, it is killing me. I should just tell him I am done. But I still am being stubborn and refusing to make the decision for him because that is what he wants and that would be easy for him. Trying to stay strong.
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UrbanExplorer
I don't feel like I can heal this marriage by only making up for the hurt my affair caused my husband because the affair was a symptom of something much bigger and longer lasting. If it sounds like I am deflecting blame for my affair, that is not my intention. I just don't see an affair as an isolated event. Thus, I don't think the WS working on himself/herself is inherently selfish. Or if it is, as my psychologist always says, is selfish really bad? Put on your own oxygen mask first. We all have to feel like "enough" on our own.
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wolfgrrl
UrbanExplorer,

I agree that the affair is not an isolated event and is certainly a symptom of bigger, deeper, and often personal issues. I believe individual therapy is needed for both sides in addition to couples therapy (if you choose to try and work it out). Choosing to have an affair as opposed to choosing other options to deal with marital problems or unhappiness in your current life are to me a clear sign that the person has other issues to work out, most likely that have nothing to do with the marriage itself. I applaud you for realizing that. I just get frustrated as hearing it as some kind of excuse. Because I believe in most cases, both spouses were feeling neglected, unappreciated, or at least that something wasn't quite right in the marriage. And yet, only one spouse chose the affair as a way to deal with those feelings. So when you hear those things thrown around as the BS, it is hard not to scream "I felt the same way too, but I didn't cheat!!" If my husband does the mature thing, owns up to the fact that this is a much deeper problem than just how he was feeling about our marriage, but more of how he chooses to deal with problems, then maybe we have a chance. Otherwise, it is likely to just happen again. So yes, how you are dealing with things feels like the right way to me. Digging deep and trying to find out why this was the option you chose instead of the other options you could have chose. You are truly out of the fog and owning it.  
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AngieB
Did any of you continue the affair past discovery and then return to your BS only after the affair ended? 

My WS refuses to end his affair.  The relationship had only been going on for 5 weeks before DDay, which was 10 weeks ago.  My husband says he loves her, is "unable" to stay away or disconnect from the AP, and doesn't love or want to be married to me anymore.  I asked him to leave, and he is now living with friends.  He is mean and cold to me when we speak about matter of life things.  He almost seems disgusted by me. 

I have read much on this website about affair fog, which he has classic symptoms of.  I had no idea there was anything wrong in our marriage. We had never really fought and we never talked about any marital problems or issues.  Nevertheless, he swears that he would still not want to be married to me anymore even if the affair were not happening.  Can I believe this?

It seems so unlikely or impossible that he can ever come out of this because he so focused on the AP.  I'm just wondering if it's possible for a WS to feel like that and then flip their thinking so much as to want to reconcile if the affair ends.
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Negarcia
wolfgrrl wrote:
Negarcia,

I thought about you this weekend and wondered how things went for you. I am glad to hear he came home. Maybe he is turning a corner and starting to realize his choices have been stupid. I'm starting to get angrier at the waiting game. My husband is home, he says the affair is over, and I believe him. But he still talks to her. We had a lunch date on Friday. It was nice. He's in a better mood at home and we kiss goodnight and call each other hun and babe like always. And yet, he still hasn't given me his final decision on whether he is staying or going. And he still won't sleep in bed with me. The mixed signals are starting to feel like too much. I've told my support circle that I am giving him until September to get through this "depression" or whatever it is and figure out what he wants. But as the days go on, I'm not sure I will have the stamina to wait that long. I pray he will make the decision sooner. But he needs to find a job first. Its like he has found this new normal for us, this coexisting but sort of still as husband and wife but without the intimacy. God, it is killing me. I should just tell him I am done. But I still am being stubborn and refusing to make the decision for him because that is what he wants and that would be easy for him. Trying to stay strong.


It was a good weekend but he was depresssed and confused. It was hard seeing him like that but understand its part of the process but even though I know thier is a possibility he can go back to her I am hoping he can stick it out and try to make it work.
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