Keepabuzz

Disclaimer - this is not a political post. Please don’t make it into one. If this turns political, I will remove the entire thread  


I watch Hillary Clinton on tv, and in interviews, and she is a bitter, bitter woman. There are many people that hate her. I have been told by numerous people with first hand knowledge that she is not a nice person to put it lightly. This is from people I trust.  Again not here to debate politics, this is not the place. But every-time I see her, I only feel sorry for her. I know the heII I have walked through. I can’t even begin to imagine the heII she walked though. In the most public light possible. Literally international first page news. You would have to work hard to find a human on the planet that can’t tell you exactly what happened. 


I wonder often if all of her bitterness, rudeness, b*tchiness is nothing more than her pain,  wing not healed and manifesting in bad ways in an attempt to protect herself. If so, I get it. I don’t think I’m that bitter, or really bitter at all. I do feel I’m wiser and far, FAR more cautious, but not bitter. BUT, I TOTALLY get how one could go that way. I certainly could have. 


Just some thoughts that roll around in my head.....

Male BS, D-day July 2015, trying to stay out of the dark.....
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ThrivenotSurvive
Agreed.  I remember feeling sorry for her back then and I still do.  Monica Lewinsky has been very vocal about the shaming she received but I thought it was as bad or worse with Hillary.  Story after story hinting (or outright saying) that if she were thinner, prettier, less manly, didn't try to match him intellectually, etc. maybe her husband would have "stayed" home. Or implying that it was a marriage of convenience or she was gay and he was her beard (because there is clearly no other reason a person would stay with a spouse who cheated.)   Even the people who THOUGHT they were "taking" up for her primarily talked about it as being the "sensible" choice as she still had political aspirations or staying for Chelsea.  The VERY clear implications were 1) he's a man and that is how they are built so if you don't keep that body tight and young it's your fault 2) anyone who stays in a marriage after infidelity either must have ulterior motives, a secret of their own to hide or is weak and pathetic. 

You look at pictures of her when they were young and she's really pretty and happy looking.  I think becoming bitter and angry is a very real possibility when staying with a repeat offender.  It would take the most impenetrable self-confidence and optimism not to slowly start to hate them, yourself and your life.  

So, yes, I agree.  I have always felt sad when I see her - and angry when the press is cruel to her over things she had no control over or harp on her looks.  Policy and anything to do with her job performance - fair game.  Looks and the cruel stuff her husband put her through - crass. 
BS - Female
Married 27 years, one adult child
DD May 2016

“When we are no longer able to change a situation, we are challenged to change ourselves.” - V Frankl
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Vanessa
I remember thinking when all of that hit:
"she is basically a prostitute - some sell themselves for money, she is selling her soul for power"  and then karma hit me with a mac truck and my spouse cheated and I would have done nearly anything to "save" my marriage
Although having an "intact" family was part of it, the kids were grown, so that was not the major factor - I thought we had such a good and strong marriage - that we were truly "soul mates" and that it was me and him against the world. 
It took me a long time to realize that the only thing we really had in common was that we were both in love with him😓
I cannot imagine the awfulness of having to put on a happy face to the entire public world when all you want to do is curl up and die (or at least sleep a lot to avoid feeling all that pain)
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ssix6pack
Yep. I see bitterness in her, and I think we all can relate to some of it. It gives me a bit of compassion for her, politics aside. 
Betrayed female
2/11/18, d day #1. 
1/2019, d day #2.
Over a decade of unfaithfulness. 
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Reese
I was just thinking yesterday about how this has changed my life so tremendously and that I feel led to extend a hand to those other women who've been betrayed by their spouses. I cannot imagine staying with a repeat offender or even staying if things don't improve. Sadly I contemplate leaving pretty much daily right now but am trying to ride the waves. I don't want to be angry and bitter forever. I hope that she heals, that all who have shared our shoes do. 
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BlindCheetah
I’ve always wondered why she didn’t leave him, of course I always thought I would until October. Once I was listening to the radio and they had a guest on the show that had Bill Clinton’s personal cell phone number so they called him and he answered. They had a very candid fun conversation, he was clearly comfortable with the surprise public call.  It was easy to see why people liked him so much outside of politics, he has to be a very hard man to be married to. 
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AnywhereButHere
I wonder if her career would have benefited from leaving Bill. It might have. But, instead, she chose to double-down, claim that her husband was faithful and vilify the women who claimed to have been his APs...as well as those who claimed to be his victims. Not all the recipients of Bill's advances were willing 'other women'. But with her career and future on the line, Hillary didn't care.

Bill's chronic philandering was legendary long before Monica Lewinsky, impeachment and the White House - before the Arkansas Governor's Mansion. Hillary should have left Bill when he was the Arkansas Attorney General. I don't have too much sympathy for her.
BH, 5+ Mo EA, DDay 3/8/18
"...regarding all as God after God."
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ThrivenotSurvive
I've known people that are funny, smart, loyal friends who would give you the shirt off their back.  But as a partner, they sucked.  It's as if there is a whole other side of them that gets activated the minute it is a romantic relationship.  I've often wondered if he was like those friends of mine.  They are confusing people.  They come across as genuine because there is a whole side of them that is.  But what is harder to pick up on is that other side that is kept from view - one that often has wells of self-doubt, a huge need for validation and a lack of trust of themselves or anyone else. 

This lack of trust in the world or anyone in it (including themselves) causes them to live with a lot of fear.   They can't be deeply vulnerable with one person because they don't trust that other person not to betray it.  I have often found that those people seem to divvy up their vulnerability - they share their hopes/dreams/aspirations with friends, all the vulnerabilities that come from building a family and home with their spouse/SO, and then often show their sexual and self-confidence issues with a "side piece".   

To allow one person to see all of those sides of themselves is TOO revealing and too scary, so they don't.  That way if they are hurt or abandoned by one of those people/groups, all the other places in their psyche are "intact".  Putting all your faith in one person is very courageous (though sometimes ill-conceived) and if you don't think you are strong enough to withstand being let down you won't do it.  It's why the strongest people. those most comfortable in their own skin, can love the deepest - and in the most healthy way.  They may still feel the fear of vulnerability, but they trust in their own ability to pick up the pieces of themselves if things go wrong, and can therefore move past the fear and stay truly open, transparent and vulnerable. 

FYI - I am making no claims to know who he really is or his underlying motivations.  Just an observation that he reminded me of people I DID know very well.
BS - Female
Married 27 years, one adult child
DD May 2016

“When we are no longer able to change a situation, we are challenged to change ourselves.” - V Frankl
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anthro
I am conscious of Hillary's very significant flaws, but overall I still regard her as worthy of admiration in certain respects. Detail beyond that would probably get us into politics and we've got enough conflict here already 🙂

I can say that the *first thing* that pops into my head when something comes up about her is what her husband put her through. I think she has made her own decisions about what she wanted to achieve and how best to get there, and probably wrote off having a good marriage a long, long time ago. The fact that she decided to stay for what I would imagine are reasons linked mainly to political ambition doesn't, in my mind, change the fact that she was one of her husband's victims. (Melania is of course another case in point, you could say she is pretty much Hillary with fewer pathways open to her).
Formerly known as Anthropoidape... male bs, long affair, d-day Feb 2017.
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Phoenix
Keepabuzz wrote:

Disclaimer - this is not a political post. Please don’t make it into one. If this turns political, I will remove the entire thread  


I watch Hillary Clinton on tv, and in interviews, and she is a bitter, bitter woman. There are many people that hate her. I have been told by numerous people with first hand knowledge that she is not a nice person to put it lightly. This is from people I trust.  Again not here to debate politics, this is not the place. But every-time I see her, I only feel sorry for her. I know the heII I have walked through. I can’t even begin to imagine the heII she walked though. In the most public light possible. Literally international first page news. You would have to work hard to find a human on the planet that can’t tell you exactly what happened. 


I wonder often if all of her bitterness, rudeness, b*tchiness is nothing more than her pain,  wing not healed and manifesting in bad ways in an attempt to protect herself. If so, I get it. I don’t think I’m that bitter, or really bitter at all. I do feel I’m wiser and far, FAR more cautious, but not bitter. BUT, I TOTALLY get how one could go that way. I certainly could have. 


Just some thoughts that roll around in my head.....


i do believe what I have done to my BS has made him into a completely different person. My daughter this weekend asked him many times, “why are you such a negative person?” He makes negative comments about any all situations. He has told me that I don’t see reality and that’s why I’m so hopeful. 
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Vanessa
Phoenix - I am very much a different person- Before Dday I was a kind outgoing "never met a stranger" type of person - I trusted everyone until he/she proved me wrong - now I see the dark in the world and I trust No ONE - this despite my mantra post Dday of "you can choose to destroy our marriage, but you can't change the type of person I choose to be" - I actively try to be more like the old me, but I just don't have the "heart"
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Keepabuzz

I also used to be a very outgoing person. Most people I know expect me to still be that same person, because they don’t know what was done to me. I still put on a good show when I have to, but it’s such an effort. It’s literally exhausting. If I had my way, I  wouldn’t go anywhere or do anything. Not that I’m still some depressed guy, I just have no desire to do those things anymore. I also trust no one. Instead of letting people in and assuming they are good until proven otherwise, I let no one in really. I think many people think I do, but in reality, on the inside, I keep everyone at a safe distance with a (healthy?) skepticism.  I also see that darkness in the world. We I used to see a light world with some dark spots, now I see a dark world with some light spots. 


I do think it’s far, far easier for a WS to have a hopeful/positive outlook, especially ones that didn’t get dropped like a bad habit.  They got to go have their fun at our expense, abuse us, and THEN get to keep us! I’m not saying they don’t suffer consequences, but it’s extremely minimal in comparison to the damage done to the BS and the consequences of their actions that we suffer for years, and possible for the rest of our lives. 

Male BS, D-day July 2015, trying to stay out of the dark.....
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stillme
I do think that when the commitment is made to continue in the marriage, it is very easy for the WS to become a "better person" than they were before, whole the BS becomes a 'lesser' version of themselves so to speak. The reality is, the WS has seen just how low they can go and they are seeking to change for the better. The ones that are truly committed to changing and growing can look back over their life and see growth, the regaining of their dignity, and an opportunity to prove - daily- that they have become better, more trustworthy, more kind and compassionate. 

It is the complete opposite for the BS. The truth is, being a trusting person is generally what got us into this situation. The only reason the betraying was possible in my situation was because I trusted my spouse. I wasn't checking emails, or phone logs, or credit card receipts. When my husband said what he was doing, or where he was going - I wasn't tracking gps on his phone to see if he was telling me the truth. So, it was literally my being trusting that allowed things to go on for as long as they did. 

My husband and I learned to opposite lessons after D-Day. My husband learned that he had a wife that was willing to forgive, if he was willing to put in the work. He learned how much I loved him because of how deeply his betrayal cut - it broke me for quite a while. He learned about redemption and opportunities to make up for your mistakes. 

I learned that people that you trust can betray you. I learned that your kindness and openness can be used against you. I learned that someone that you loved, shared vows with, and had kids with - could look you in the face and lie without flinching. 

If my husband learned nothing from D-Day and didn't change his behavior, everyone would easily call that out as foolish. However, people tend to have a negative response when the BS leans from D-Day and changes their behavior and mindset accordingly. 

I know that I am forever changed, and not in ways that I ever wanted to change. I know that I can never fully trust anyone again, for the rest of my life. Yes, I stayed in the marriage. Yes, my husband has done everything I asked and hasn't stepped one toe out of line since we chose to work on the marriage. However, I remember how low I got after D-Day. My brain went to places that I am ashamed to admit. I don't ever want to feel that way again. And, my husband proved to me that no matter how much someone says they love you, that doesn't mean they won't break your heart into a million pieces for completely selfish reasons. I learned that literally no one on this planet loves me enough to seek to protect my heart and my mind, even if that means they have to give up a few minutes of pleasure (or whatever people feel they get from affairs). My husband will tell anyone that his walk down the porn road wasn't worth it. That brings me no comfort because I was shattered to pieces for something that he knows through and through wasn't worth it. 

So yeah, I am definitely a less kind, less trusting, less relaxed version of myself. Even if I would have left the marriage, I still wouldn't trust another soul. In fact, it might be worse because at least I get to see daily that my husband is seeking to right his wrongs. But, if I can't trust someone who committed to me, had kids with me, and shared a bed with me for over a decade - who can I trust? So yes, I can see how bitterness creeps up. I don't unleash anger or rudeness on others. I keep my lack of trust to myself and don't disclose to people I interact with just how little I trust them. But, there are absolutely pieces of my heart I will never share with anyone for the rest of my time here on earth. They are too precious and if they were broken I'm not sure I could recover.
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GuyInPain
Yes, Hillary has been an interesting case in point for a long time.  I have a good deal of sympathy for her.  I feel that apart from her initial collusion in the Lewinsky coverup she has borne up under the stress pretty well.  

Yes, it's possible that her personality was affected by the adultery.  I'm interested in the comments above from people who feel their own personalities have been affected.  For myself, I feel I'm basically the same person, but there have definitely been negatives: I struggle a fair amount with negative thoughts that I didn't used to have.  I will definitely never again blindly trust my wife in connection with other men.  While our situation has improved tremendously with a great deal of mutual understanding and substantial reconciliation, I still struggle with triggers and all that they unleash.

So, yeah, adultery changes things and it changes us.  There can be healing, but I'm not sure one ever 'gets over it.'  But we can learn to carry it differently.
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ThrivenotSurvive
I would agree that I am forever changed, but in the last year and a half or so, the vast majority of the negative aspects have fallen away.  They aren't completely gone, but have lessened to such a degree they don't really effect or change my overall personality/approach to life.  It took almost 4 years (not quite there,but close) but I feel like I have reclaimed my joy, my optimism, my confidence.

On the other hand - I do think I am less apt to take things at face value.  And I trust my instincts more than ever.  Once I got through the period we all seem to go through where you don't trust yourself or your perceptions, I realized I was looking at it wrong.  I HAD known something was up.  I didn't know what, but my spidey senses were definitely saying something wasn't right.  I didn't need to trust myself less - I need to trust myself MORE.  I will never override my gut again  - but instead use any information it gives me to dig deeper.  And that is in every facet of my life, not just with mu husband.  

I have been told most of my life that I am one of the most optimistic people that exist.  Not in a "not facing reality" sort of way, but in the "always able to find the silver lining" sort of way.  For the first 2 years that part of me seemed lost and it broke my heart.  More than my husband's infidelity.  I missed me, and the person I was.  But as I've mentioned many times here before, I focused on my own healing like it was a job for the first couple years.  All the self-care that I had neglected for decades in service to others became my mantra.  I took care of my body, I used all the latest neuroscience to rewire my brain to be less reactive, I did everything to support and heighten my own self-value (learning new things, volunteering, reengaging with old hobbies, etc), I practiced prayer and meditation, made myself find things to be grateful for even when it was hard as hell, got out in nature, on and on.  I learned to say NO when I wanted to and give only when I wanted with an open heart - nearly eliminating resentment from my life.  I learned that I was enough just as I was - no striving or pleasing needed.  And if my husband (or family/friends) loved that person, wonderful.  But if he (or they) didn't, that it would hurt, but it would be okay too.  In rebuilding myself, I became more whole.  It may sound negative, because it sounds like I don't need other people, or love them as much.  But my experience of it has been very different.  In not relying on anyone else for my self-worth, I find that I am able to love more deeply.  And be far less reactive when they  aren't acting in the way I would want.  I don't know if this make any sense, it is hard to put into words a feeling.  

So, I guess in a fairly true-to-nature fashion, I have found my silver lining.  I like the person I rebuilt. I am far more understanding and compassionate than I was before.  I always tried to be sympathetic to others, but as a fairly happy, optimistic person it was often hard for me to be truly empathetic.  That has changed and I am more gentle with people now.  I am more whole within myself and am less dependent on others for my happiness.  And I REALLY like the changes in my husband and in our relationship.  

Granted, even with my silver lining, I can't and won't, say that I am happy for this experience.  It was the worst of my life BY FAR and that is really saying something.  I will always feel that there were other, far less painful routes to the positive changes both I and my husband have made.  However, that won't stop me from taking every single tiny triumph or nugget of wisdom from it.

I have no idea if the way I feel is due to chemical wiring, nature, the effort I put into healing, the support system I have, or a million other things - but it is my fervent hope and prayer that every person here on this forum and elsewhere feeling like they lost a piece of themselves regains it somewhere along the way. 
Actually, I hope that you not only regain it - but it comes with your own silver lining that makes you feel stronger, more empowered.  It may take years and years (God knows it has me) but I have to believe it is possible. 
 
BS - Female
Married 27 years, one adult child
DD May 2016

“When we are no longer able to change a situation, we are challenged to change ourselves.” - V Frankl
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