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Kalmarjan
Scarlett wrote:
Just curious, do you two realize how bad you sound? You're admitting you were stringing your AP along for sex. Perhaps she did not see it the same way. While you're working on getting your wife back and feeling great remorse, do you have any remorse for how you also treated your AP? It's really not a stand up thing for you to do to either women.


If you mean that when you boil it down, it comes to just sex? I'm not worried about how bad it sounds. It is what happened. Buckle up, this is gonna be a long post...

Keep in mind that I am not saying that is how I viewed it at the time. 

I'm just cutting all the crap, distilling it down to what it really was. 

Can you seriously tell me that you loved your AP? Like, really, truly, seriously say it? 

Keep in mind that from your other posts, it seems like you are not completely free of your fog, and you still have your AP on a pedestal. 

As for my AP, let me tell you something. Do I have remorse for her feelings? Sure. Up until I got curious one day and looked through her phone. Remember I was saying that I was just another notch on her bedpost? 

She had done this before, numerous times. In fact, I found out that she regularly sent out nude pictures of herself to other people that I worked with. She was also a drug addict, and she lied about so much stuff it was hard to understand what the truth actually was.

Truth be told, I don't care anymore. I really could care less about the AP. And it's not because the "sex" isn't there anymore, it's because I realized that the AP was using my feelings and empathy as a weapon against me. Because I allowed her to.

Up until the last conversation I had with her - it was all about how she felt, how things made her feel. She felt bad because I had to cease contact with her, it hurt her deeply because I went back to my wife, my son was taking up too much of my time so it made her feel like she wasn't worth as much as him, how could I go back to my wife and hurt her like that? What about all the things she bought me? What about when I said that I didn't love my wife like that, what about when I said that I loved her, or what about our affinity for each other? Weren't we supposed to be soul mates? 

Look, I actually believed that I was in love with her. I really did. Otherwise, I would NOT have been able to go forward with my affair. How could I? But, do you know WHY I thought I was in love with her?

You talk about treating the AP badly? How about when you are LOVE BOMBED? I'll explain...

When I was talking about the innappropriate conversation with the AP, it means things about the strucutre and integrity of the marriage. How I felt, what my hopes, dreams were. About the fantasies I had about sex, my desires to visit places, even the type of music that I listened to, or the type of movies and comedy I enjoyed (but my wife didn't.)

Lo and behold, suddenly she (the AP) was all those things. The "opposite" of my wife. See, the mechanism was so simple. Just listen to what my dreams were, then fulfill them, at least for a while. 

So, suddenly she was that person that wanted to go on the same vacations as me. LOVED my style of music, the videos that I watched, and even more importantly, LOVED doing all the fantastic things that I told her about my fantasies.

No wonder I thought I had met my soul mate...

Let me tell you, once I moved out to be with her, all that was GONE. Suddenly I had someone who slowly, but surely revealed that perhaps she didn't like all those things. Vacations? Yes, absolutely, but not with my son in tow. Music? Ah, she doesn't really listen to music. 

You know, I spent a LOT of time worrying about the AP feelings. A LOT of time.

But you know what? My wife cornered me with that. She knows that I am a person who will have an immense amount of caring and empathy for people. But she simply had to ask me why I didn't care for her feelings, as opposed to the AP.

That broke things right there for me. Damnit, she was right!

Oh, to further expand on this. Remember when I said I got curious and looked through my AP phone one day? Well, she never understood that sent messages are searchable, Yep, I saw every single picture she sent to other people (including at the EXACT same time she started "falling in love" with me!) I saw that other men went through the same steps as me. 

The steps of - here I am, I am your desire. Now, I want you to sneak out on your wife/girlfriend and be with me. Oh, but you can't really be with me unless you get rid of her first. But you can have a bit of me, but not fully. You have to choose me over her.

Then I put two and two together based off of her reaction when she found out I went back to my wife. 

See, it's not about me. It's not even about my wife. It's about the AP. Her need to validate herself by "winning." She EVEN gave me a list. Check this list out:

Quote:

Look, I thought of it, and the only way we would work out is this....
You move to (her city)
U and ur wife are OVER like the divorce ppl who HATE each other 
I can read all her texts
I can come and get your son with you
There is no emotion for her at all
Never do her favors
Like she is dead to you, is how you will treat her
No Happpy Mothers Day, New Years, Christmas
She gives you a gift and you throw it back into her face.


So, this is what she requires me to do to stay with her. Thing is, I DON'T WANT TO BE WITH HER. But, she doesn't understand that, because it's not supposed to be ME rejecting her, it's supposed to be the other way around. 

This isn't about me, it's about fueling her need to feel beautiful, wanted, desirable, and win verses my wife. In fact, how can I pick my wife over her? She actually even told me once that she didn't understand why I chose my wife, because her (the AP)(WORD for Vagina that starts with a P) was WAY better than hers.

So, this has been a long answer. No, I don't care about her feelings. I really don't. I know that some OW on these boards here may think that I am an ass, but so be it. I spent too long invested in a bad situation, that I should have NEVER gotten to in the first place. I made a monumental stupid decision based off of feelings (my "heart" if you will) but it all turned out to be nonsense. 

Now, the whole point of this post is to make you, Scarlett, understand that I didn't go into the "relationship" to just have sex. Man, that would have been a lot easier, if I was that guy. I'm not. I had to make myself believe that I had fallen in love with the woman. Then I had my affair. 

But, the truth of the matter is, sitting here typing this out, it's obvious. At first I was angry at the AP for "duping" me, but honestly, It was all a sham. I sold myself a bs story, and to everyone else, including the AP. I sold myself a story that I had met my soul mate, because how could she like all the things that I liked? I went with "my heart." 

Once you take all that away? Remove the story? Remove the "feelings" from it, and you are left with inescapable logic. You are left with the core of what ALL WS are left with in the aftermath of coming out of the fog. (Except the VERY rare AP couple that goes on to get married... and that's less than 1%!) 


It's all a sham. It's all bull. Fact is, you sold yourself a story. Period. You can tell yourself that you truly loved them, but really? Most affairs happen so quickly. There might be an emotional affair first, but the physical happens so quickly, it literally makes your world not make sense. 

So, you have to try and make it make sense. 

But, search deep down. Cut all the bullsh*t out. Distill it down, and face the fact.

It was all about the sex. 

How it made you feel. You felt wanted. You felt needed, validated. You can sell yourself a fairy tale about how it was true love. 

BULL.

True love does not start off with lies and deception. IF you TRULY found a soul mate, and a true love, then you would DO the right thing and terminate your relationship with your spouse before exploring the other. THEN you would be with the other. It sure as hell wouldn't be one sided. 

That is what all the BS say on here, and THEY ARE RIGHT. I totally get why they are frustrated with their WS for not seeing the obvious.

Does admitting this make me an assh*le? Yes. I was one. To the one person who mattered in all this. Okay, to the two people who mattered. Me, and my wife. 

But, I have examined my ways, and I am making the changes so I can be with my true soul mate. The one that I married. The one that actually participated in my vegetable peeler MADNESS. (I mean SERIOUSLY... a vegetable peeler... LOL) 

I have accepted that what I did was wrong. Admitting it was hard, but I am making reparations for it. But, it's a huge weight off my shoulders. 

It doesn't sound like you have accepted that. Is it possible that you are still clinging to the fantasy? 
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Scarlett
Of course I have accepted it, and he is far from on a pedestal with me. Like I said, I believe he probably has the same attitude you do. My point earlier was it all depends on circumstances and the people involved. I was nowhere near anything like your AP. I am married and have never had an A before. I trusted him completely. There were no other men or notches on my bedpost. I work with many men and have never had these same feelings. It was a situation that started out professional that turned emotional first. I did see his faults, the same ones I see today, but I accepted him for who he was. So yes, 15 mo. post Dday, I can still say I loved him. All I'm trying to say is not every OM is like you, nor is every OW like me. 
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Kalmarjan
Oh, I'm not saying the situation is gender specific. See, your situation mirrors mine. I never had an affair before, and with my AP it started out professional at first, then emotional, then full blown physical.

What I'm trying to say is that my situation, and the mechanism for all of it is repeated all throughout almost every affair board. It's like I plagiarized it.

The difference is that I was pursued. And I fell into it. That's why it was so quick. I had ample opportunity to cheat in the past but I never went there.

I'm also not saying you are the OW or even like the OM, I'm saying that the story that you sold yourself to allow the affair is not true, but also that it's not unique.

Are you still with your BS? Are you trying to make it work?

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Scarlett
I find your choice of words "she pursued me" interesting. My AP said the same thing on Dday. He blamed me for the A. That's not taking responsibility. What he seemed to forget was he was the one calling me on the phone everyday for 2 months straight talking to me for 2-3 hours a day before any talk of feelings occurred. He was the one who told me his detailed plans for leaving his wife. He was the one who told me he gave 99% of himself to me and 1% to his wife. He is the one who told me when he's with his wife he feels like he's cheating on me. On the day my husband found out and I gave him the opportunity to walk away so his wife wouldn't find out, he was the one who said no, I don't want to lose you. He was fine watching me go through a legal separation with my H and take the risk, even though he was running for elected office. He is the one who told me if she finds out before he has his business affairs in order, he would have to leave me, but he wanted me to know it would only be for the kids and his business, not his wife.

So you see, the OW has every reason to believe the AP is going to leave his wife when he says these things. There was no manipulation on my part. 

Yes, I am still with my BS. I am very lucky to have such a good man who has stood by me. After being used and lied to by another man, I can't imagine ever opening up to any other man than my husband again. 
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Guiltguilt
Scarlett wrote:
Just curious, do you two realize how bad you sound? You're admitting you were stringing your AP along for sex. Perhaps she did not see it the same way. While you're working on getting your wife back and feeling great remorse, do you have any remorse for how you also treated your AP? It's really not a stand up thing for you to do to either women.


The moral high ground is something I can never claim again as a WS. This will haunt me for the rest of my life. I've destroyed two families, the waves from it will hit generations after I'm gone.
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Scarlett
As an OW, I understand completely. If there is one good thing I learned from this, it's compassion for others. I am no longer judgmental over the decisions others make. We are all human, broken and in need of God's grace.
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Kalmarjan
Scarlett wrote:
I find your choice of words "she pursued me" interesting. My AP said the same thing on Dday. He blamed me for the A. That's not taking responsibility.... . There was no manipulation on my part. 

Yes, I am still with my BS. I am very lucky to have such a good man who has stood by me. After being used and lied to by another man, I can't imagine ever opening up to any other man than my husband again. 


Ah, I see I haven't been clear here. I'm saying your situation IS like mine. You were duped.

When I say that she pursued me... Well, here is why I say that:

1. She found me on Facebook the first day I started working at the place, then requested friends.

2. She contacted me through text on the pretext of getting some "information" about work.

3. SHE called me nonstop when I was commuting to work from about the 5th day that I knew her. I didn't really mind, she was nice to talk to, and seemed to "get me."

4. She sent me a naked selfie. It was just her butt. But, it was enough that I made my way t down to the basement to further the conversation with her.

5. She stuck to me like glue at work. Always looking to go that extra mile. Buying me coffee, gifts, little things... Like a new coffee mug (which I didn't even want I mean my stainless coffee mug is 15 years old, beat up, and had been through so many wars...)

I remember telling her that I was sorry for crossing the line when I accidentally brushed up against her. She told me no, the line wasnt crossed... I responded where is the line, and she told me that there is no line...

6. She texted me constantly. Wanted to know all the details. She was like an instant bestie... It was like I finally found someone that just got me.

Look, I'm not saying it was all her fault. Far from it. I am more at fault for pursuing anything with her, but she intrigued me.

It wasn't until far later, when I was getting out of the fog, did I see the manipulation for what it was.

But, it doesn't matter.

The point is, I cheated. I take responsibility for my actions. That's the whole reason why I am on this site. I don't make excuses for what happened, but I can tell you what did happen.

She may have pursued me. But, I let her. I let it work. I wanted it to work.

She may have manipulated me, yes. But, did I not put myself into a position where I could be manipulated? So, that's my fault.

That's what I am getting at for all of this. Yes, everyone has their story, and their situation. There are circumstances that led to the affair.

But, none justify actually having that affair. Not one.

Worse the story is ALWAYS the same. It's repeated time and time again. Through this board and many other like it. Look on the reddit thread suggested above. It's like reading the same story, over, and over.

In the end, affairs were about a need that wasn't met. Usually one or two single needs (out of many in a marriage.) in my case, it was the need to be validated, to have someone love me for who I was, my career, and that thought I was sexy. And someone who did all the fantasies that I wanted that my wife wasn't comfortable exploring. That's it.

The stupid thing is, my wife filled all the other needs in the relationship. We had a deep, deep relationship. My wife IS MY soul mate. She always has been.

You know, when we were first married, other couples abjectly REFUSED to let us team up against them to play any game. Why? We just got each other. We still do.

I fell into a dream world when I thought the AP was like my wife, like a soul mate. I wanted to believe that because here was this girl who was all of a sudden interested in all the stupid things I was into.

I suspect that your AP was a lot like my AP. Manipulative, narcissistic, and lo and behold, when he was done with you, he discarded you.

I can't tell you how hard my AP tried to weasel back into my life. She tried everything. But I won't fall for it, because I know that it's just to Hoover me up, and then discard me. The best course of action is to stop it from happening again.

That is, cut her off. Tell. Her that I love my wife, I'm going to work on that, and to never contact me again.

To a narcissistic person, that is a nightmare. She basically has left my life. I'm not worth the effort anymore because I won't play into her game. So, she's off to her next thing.

And I'm left here to try and fix what was broken, but learn from the process too.

Do I love her? No.

I was never in love with her. I was in love WITH THE IDEA of who she pretended to be.

I suspect this is the problem in your case. This is why it may be hard for you to let go. It's hard to admit that you fell for the bull. Trust me, I know first hand.
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Kalmarjan
Guiltguilt wrote:
Scarlett wrote:
Just curious, do you two realize how bad you sound? You're admitting you were stringing your AP along for sex. Perhaps she did not see it the same way. While you're working on getting your wife back and feeling great remorse, do you have any remorse for how you also treated your AP? It's really not a stand up thing for you to do to either women.
The moral high ground is something I can never claim again as a WS. This will haunt me for the rest of my life. I've destroyed two families, the waves from it will hit generations after I'm gone.


TBH, it's not all doom and gloom. Things will work out, but maybe not the way you think you wanted.

The good news is that you are not defined by this. You can learn from your mistakes, crush them, then move on. It's not like you will never ever have integrity. Far from it mon ami. You've lost it before, therefore it will be more in your interest to keep it this time. 


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