Kelaine53 Show full post »
Ginger
I also think YOU set the boundaries.  I honestly think that if I feel like talking about the hell it wreaked in my life, if something is bothering me, angering me, upsetting me...I can talk about it.  Who else are you really supposed to talk about it with in those moments?? Why should you feel the need to keep it all in??   If they are truly on board with reconciliation,  they should get that.  It doesn't mean you get to call him a man whore pos 50x a day, but jeez, you do get to express yourself w/o being hung up on and ignored for 30 days.  I really hope you work things thru if that is what you want.  But remember,  you wouldn't  be "berating" him in the first place if he didn't have an affair. (I don't mean to sound harsh, I just see his tactics as being very manipulative still and you being the one trying, trying, trying). 
Quote 2 0
ssix6pack
I’m glad he called, if it’s the catalyst for healing your marriage. 

I agree that there is a time when the conversational tone needs to shift. I never yelled or berated my husband, but I was firm and unmoving in my unwillingness to tolerate it. Now, we’ve established Thursday’s as our day of the week to “check up”. Of course, if I feel I need to talk about it another night, I am free to, but usually I find I can wait until Thursday evenings and then we’re both prepared to tackle whatever it is. That’s been really helpful. Perhaps establishing some boundaries, for both of you, will be helpful. 

But, frankly. If I did “lose it” on my husband, he’d stand there and take it. No, not forever, but he wouldn’t shut down immediately and blow me off. I hope your husband can “man up”, roll up His sleeves, and get to work. Best of luck, T. 
Betrayed female
2/11/18, d day #1. 
1/2019, d day #2.
Over a decade of unfaithfulness. 
Quote 1 0
Trinity
I do get where you all are coming from about him being manipulative and needing to man up.... I do not disagree.  The thing is, I can't force him to do anything and when I do apply pressure you all know how that goes...  I get the "click" and ignored.  I also have told him that he is never to hang up on me again and it does not matter, he will do it anyway because he can.  Also, his brother told me that he hangs up on him as well, and also on their father so..it's his MO, it's not just me.  He is not capable of handling being backed into a corner and/or pressured, he just removes himself from the situation as fast as possible.  Kind of weird for a Military guy but ???  

He has said that he is committed to our marriage and we agreed to starting over.  I don't know what that actually looks like but I guess we will find out.  I don't know if there is anything left that I can do or say.  I am trying my best to let go, I wish it was easier.  Being alone does not help matters.

I was reading this article on "affair healing" and it talked about re-framing the affair.  Basically, Yup it happened and that cant be undone so look at it in a different context, reframe the event.  So I have been trying to do that.  It went on to say to pick out 3 positive things that have come out of it.  I'm trying to do that as well.

We are meeting up at a 1/2 way point in a few weeks to spend the weekend together.  

"T"
BS - DDay July 2017

O GOD, take me, break me, make me. 
Quote 1 0
anthropoidape
Trinity wrote:
.  He did say that the reason he did not call or want to talk to me was because he felt like I was beating him up weekly, over his choice to cheat.  Honestly, I was.  I guess there are things on both ends that we can only endure for so long. 


It occurred to me that this is actually an abusive position for him to take. I am using the word "abusive" carefully there. He is creating a situation where you are made responsible for his terrible behaviour in hanging up when he should be supporting and soothing you. 

When you say "honestly, I was" this just sounds exactly like, "yes, he did put me in hospital, but I drove him to do it." 

The more it sits there the more I think it is absolutely rotten. There are a truckload of ways he could have handled his feeling of being berated that would have been better than hanging up on you, in not contacting you, in texting you when he should have called. 

I think he is a coward and that he is abusive. I can't see any other way to look at it. The cowardice is just as bad as the abuse, too. You can never, ever trust a person who will always take the easy path even when it's the wrong path. That is a guy who when the chips are down and you really, really need him by your side is going to send you a text message. 

"I've just found out my mother's dying."
"SRY TO HEAR THAT. C U NEXT MONTH. GTG BYE."
Maybe it is okay, maybe it will be okay.

BS, d-day Feb 2017, 16 mth affair.
Quote 4 0
anthropoidape
Trinity wrote:
 It went on to say to pick out 3 positive things that have come out of it.  I'm trying to do that as well.


Burn that book. 
Maybe it is okay, maybe it will be okay.

BS, d-day Feb 2017, 16 mth affair.
Quote 3 0
hurting


Burn that book. 


Lol. 

Positives to come out of being cheated on and lied to? None. I suppose it’s positive that we aren’t being made fools of any more since we know they’re lying scumbags? Hm. Except they shouldn’t have been that at all. Positive that we have been forced to become stronger? But no one needs to grow stronger through torture and pain inflicted by their spouse. No one. 

Im not sure about that book either tbh. I get that it’s trying to get you to find ‘positive’ things in a positively sh!t situation, but yeah... none of it should’ve happened in the first place is the problem. 

It is hard to have a WS who is a coward. Mine is too on some levels. But he is more sneaky about it than yours... yours just seems to be unwilling to deal with any kind of emotional discomfort and because you are not physically together, he hangs up to take himself out of the situation. It’s a crappy disrespectful immature thing to do. It’s childish and screams of not taking responsibility for the consequences of his actions. It doesn’t matter if all you do is ‘berate him’. He cheated. He needs to be berated for as long as you feel the need to do so. He doesn’t seem to understand this 🙁
Quote 3 0
anthropoidape
Is there such a thing as a WS who is not a coward? I doubt it. Cowardice is a key ingredient of infidelity; courage would mean making an open decision to leave rather than cheat. 
Maybe it is okay, maybe it will be okay.

BS, d-day Feb 2017, 16 mth affair.
Quote 4 0
Keepabuzz
I would add that it doesn’t matter that he “hangs up on everybody”. It doesn’t change the fact that it is manipulative, childish, and wildly disrespectful. 

IF you decide to stay, I would make it clear that that behavior is totally unacceptable and if he hangs up on you even a single time, that the next communication coming from you will be via your divorce lawyer. Do not accept his shìt. 
Male BS, D-day July 2015, trying to stay out of the dark.....
Quote 4 0
ssix6pack
Is there such a thing as a WS who is not a coward? I doubt it. Cowardice is a key ingredient of infidelity; courage would mean making an open decision to leave rather than cheat. 


ive thought about this a lot. My husband has never displayed cowardly behaviors, and to learn how he lowered his morales to be “liked” by a group of military personnel was shocking and disappointing. 

I’m still not sure I’d sum him up as being a coward. Maybe due to how he’s handled everything since confession, I don’t know. But, he’s far weaker than I ever knew. And, he values people’s opinions more than I ever thought he did. 
Betrayed female
2/11/18, d day #1. 
1/2019, d day #2.
Over a decade of unfaithfulness. 
Quote 0 0
ssix6pack
Talked briefly with DH about this (being a coward). He says he was a total coward. Escaping manhood, responsibility, not standing up for his own morals....etc. 

So, i guess that’s how he views himself. 
Betrayed female
2/11/18, d day #1. 
1/2019, d day #2.
Over a decade of unfaithfulness. 
Quote 2 0
Trinity
Keepabuzz wrote:
I would add that it doesn’t matter that he “hangs up on everybody”. It doesn’t change the fact that it is manipulative, childish, and wildly disrespectful. 

IF you decide to stay, I would make it clear that that behavior is totally unacceptable and if he hangs up on you even a single time, that the next communication coming from you will be via your divorce lawyer. Do not accept his shìt. 


Well. I got hung up on again and guess what......   I called him (of course he did not answer) but I left a voicemail that said......  You can hang up on me all you want, but the next person you will have to decide to hang up on will be my divorce lawyer.  

Guess what, I got a call the next morning at 6 am.  We did actually have a decent conversation that was positive.  

Just though I'd share.  

"T"
BS - DDay July 2017

O GOD, take me, break me, make me. 
Quote 3 0
Kelaine53
Trinity wrote:


Well. I got hung up on again and guess what......   I called him (of course he did not answer) but I left a voicemail that said......  You can hang up on me all you want, but the next person you will have to decide to hang up on will be my divorce lawyer.  

Guess what, I got a call the next morning at 6 am.  We did actually have a decent conversation that was positive.  

Just though I'd share.  

"T"


Trinity,

I hope that you have read about doing a 180. Boundaries are important.  Your WS, mine and all the others either never had them or found a way to slide right over them.

I crossed my own boundaries for years. Boundaries such as demanding honesty and respect in our marriage. Boundary lines as to what behaviors I would live with and what I would not Boundaries that almost destroyed my own self respect.

When I learned that my H had an over 6 year affair - I walked out of the door and went all the way across the country. He had no idea if I would ever come back. Neither did I. If I was at a different point in my life I probably would not have. What I did do was set boundaries that are now immutable. I found strength I did not know I had and truly did not want to have to find - but I did. I am resourceful and capable and can take care of myself. I get up every morning and make a choice to stay. I stay because I wake up next to a man that spends every minute of every day living totally and completely for me and our relationship. It has taken two years of hard work everyday for him to find the man he should always have been and look that man straight in the eye. He broke himself with his selfish choices - his affair was just one of them. Each day I find a kind, authentic, caring and sober man. If I wake up any day and find less. I will be gone. It is that simple. He knows this. He believes this and he accepts full responsibility for this state of our relationship.

When I say he accepts full responsibility it is not just an " I am sorry I did this, can we start over and move on." He has transformed. It has been an agonizing and painful process for him. He is shedding over 60 years of selfishness, self-indulgence and as her IC puts it a 60 year temper tantrum. Never once does he blame me or the state of our marriage for his choices. At first he was still in protective mode. That had to go away or I would not agree to even entertain any form of reconciliation.

I am here after two years because I like this man. I have earned this new and extremely improved man. The cost was almost my sanity but the cost has already been extracted. I should at least get the benefit for surviving this hell.

If your husband truly loves you (more than he loves himself) and is sincerely remorseful he will do whatever it takes to become a better man and a better husband. He cannot be a better husband without the former. He will have to look the demon squarely in the eye and see it for what it is. The child in him needs to quit running away (or hanging up).

I wish you the very best. If you want to stay in your marriage I truly hope your husband is willing to become the best for you.
Quote 5 0
hurting
Kelaine, your post outlines exactly what I am after in my marriage and the state it is in now. 

I too, feel I have paid the price. I am waiting on him to continue to change and become the man he should’ve been all this time. I only hope that he can and will actually do it. If he will not or cannot, I will NOT hang around and stay.

T, I hope for your sake that your WS too will take the steps necessary to make it through and do this for you.
Quote 2 0
BorealJ
Trinity, the hanging up thing is a wildly avoidant behaviour.  Does he also leave the room and quietly brood on his own when you have conflict in person?  While completely immature and inappropriate in your situation, I don't think it's an uncommon behaviour.  In Hold Me Tight, Sue Johnson calls it the Protest Polka and says it's "the most widespread and ensnaring dance in relationships".  It's also called "the hailstorm and the turtle" by some.  See the show notes for this Personality Hacker podcast or listen to the episode
I recognize it from experience.  It's not effective to move toward them and demand they respond.  It's more like coaxing a frightened little animal out of their hiding place.  Any sudden movements and they scurry back into hiding.
Anyway, your husband is turtling.  People turtle in order to retreat to safety.  Getting him to come out might need you to understand what he is afraid of.  Again, the podcast I referred to helps you understand some of the typical fears of turtles and the histories that often lead to it.  He might be afraid of emotions (yours and his own), failure and criticism if he doesn't believe he is good enough, conflict if he never learned conflict resolution skills.  If it is any of these things, he probably turtles because of your hailstorming.  You've said that you have berated him etc. which would include all of the things turtles are typically afraid of: high emotion, criticism, and conflict.  If you storm, he's gonna turtle.  That behaviour is learned and well ingrained.  He'll need time to change it. 
I would say that my personal history has led to me having a securely attached style, but after d-day, I became a hailstorm.  Of course I did.  How could you not?  This attachment theory stuff helped me to understand my wife a bit better.  Both in trying to have productive conversations post d-day by avoiding the hailstorming behaviours that sent her into hiding, as well as understanding some of the influences that made her vulnerable to infidelity in the first place.  In exploring it, I was able to adopt a more nurturing position in the relationship.  My wife doesn't want to be a slave to the past and wants to grow.  I want to support her.  It helps me with a vision for the future.
It might be hard to see your husband who has unleashed such a destructive force as a scared little boy, but that's really what he is revealing himself to be with these behaviours.  I don't mean that as an insult to him, but that his history is being triggered.  Anthro once told me that you have to think patronizingly as you would with a child.  It was true.  If you want to find the good man you believe he can be, you might first have to soothe the scared little boy in front of you now. 
 
Quote 1 0
Trinity
BorealJ  - 

I completely understand where you are coming from here.  SO many times my friends and family and therapists have said to me that  .....  HE NEEDS to help you in your healing, HE NEEDS to talk to you about it, HE NEEDS to this and that and, if he does not do this and that then he he still only cares about himself, HE NEEDS to ...........  !!!   But he absolutely retreats just like a turtle and then WE get ZERO accomplished.  I feel I have to treat him with kid gloves.  I have to serve up conversations on soft linens, candles, soft music and a butler.  If the service has a pinch too much salt or pepper, it is shut down and he retreats.  And YES, he does this when we are together too.  I can bring up something and he will just sit and completely act like I am not there.  It's so weird to me but it is exactly what you have described.

I am doing my best to make a place for us to communicate where he feels comfortable but I have to tell you............... ITS VERY DIFFICULT !!!  I don't feel that he should be comfortable but there will be ZERO communication if I don't set the stage for the deer to come out of the woods.

"T"
BS - DDay July 2017

O GOD, take me, break me, make me. 
Quote 0 0