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Fionarob
blythespirit - I don't think you are being impatient at all.  I think six months is long enough for him to have ended contact.  I am pretty much in a similar situation....waiting for my husband to end all contact with his AP.  Like you say, every contact they make, or every day that goes by when they choose NOT to end it just shows a complete lack of respect, compassion, empathy and love for the betrayed spouse. 

To me it also says something huge about the risk they are willing to take in terms of the marriage - every time they make contact they risk it being the last time we will put up with it.  How do they know that the next time might be the last as far as we are concerned and that we will just say we have had enough?

Stand up for what you believe in and don't tell yourself you are being impatient - he has been unfaithful to you!  Six months is enough time for him to have ended all contact. Nobody should have to share their spouse with someone else.  I feel exactly the same as you - every time there is contact they are bringing that other person into our lives too.

I have come to a point like you where I am just being civil to my husband, but nothing more.  I have completely detached from him emotionally until he can prove to me that he is committed to me and the marriage.  I have been working for 2.5 years to try and fix our marriage and I have finally said to myself "what on earth am I doing???"  Either he proves to me that it really is what he wants with actions (words are no longer enough) or I will be asking him to leave.  And he is seriously running out of time, and doesn't even seem to realise!

Stay strong
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blythespirit
Thank you, Fionarob, for your comments and I'm so sorry we seem to be in similar situations.  I can't imagine how you have managed to survive through 2 and a half years of this, however.  After six months, I'm about done.  And all of a sudden it's gotten easier.  I'm full on into the 180 with him and although I was hesitant to take that approach because of fear that he may never come back to the marriage, my fear about that is quickly fading.  And it's not that he's necessarily any closer to wanting to come back, it's that it doesn't matter as much to me now.  The larger question for me now is do I even WANT him to come back to me.  In the beginning, I desperately wanted that.  And now, I'm not so sure I would take him back.  The distance between us has grown so much greater because of the months of his crazy indecision and refusal to face what he was doing.  Although he does appear to be (finally) starting to face what he's done, I don't know if he'll ever be able to cover the massive amount of space that he has let come between us.  And I don't know if I even want that.  So much hurt and trauma.  For me to find empathy and love for him again would take tremendous effort on my part and I don't know that I have either the energy or the will.  It sounds as if you are coming to a similar realization.  I'm just not sure whether I'm happy or sad about it.
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Fionarob
blythespirit - I am totally in agreement with you on everything you say.  Yes - I have reached the point where even though I don't want this for my children, I feel I have run out of options.  My husband has made me dislike him so much with the torment, the lies, the constant lack of empathy, the refusal to hurt the AP etc etc that I just don't think I could ever love him again.  I don't look at him and see the man I fell in love with, I just see a complete stranger.

I would like my marriage to work, for my children, and for the good memories of a marriage we used to have.  But if I no longer even like my husband for what he has done, then how can we possibly rebuild it?  Especially when he is not really showing me much proof that he wants it either.  He is very good at saying he does..........but I have not seen much action.  I have forgiven him for a lot over the years this has been going on, but I have reached my limit as far as forgiveness goes, I have just run out.

In his mind I am ending it because of an email.........he cannot see this goes so much deeper than that.  Yes, the email was the final straw, but the other 2.5 years before that have taken their toll on me.  When someone is given a last chance and they still don't cut all contact then you have to face the fact that they probably never will.  I didn't want to give up on our marriage this time last year.......but now I see I have wasted a whole year when I could have been moving on and getting over this.

I do feel sad, so sad that he didn't take any of the chances I offered him, especially these last 4 weeks of waiting.  One day he will realise that he should have made that phone call to his AP because it has cost him his marriage and his children.  Apparently he has ended it with her now.........but I just don't know if I believe him.
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Anna26
Blythspirit/Fionarob:

I feel I am in exactly the same position as you both and you have probably read some of my posts to this effect so I won't bore you with it all again. It's enough to say that 18 months along from Dday and we are not really any further to resolving anything.

In the beginning you want so much to be able to make things right and restore the marriage but the longer it goes on the less you feel inclined to do so.  And it's all so frustrating when you can see that more and more distance is being created between you by their inability to see what they need to do or to make that decision.
You lose heart in everything and then develop a kind of apathy.

What hurts me the most is that they just can't see where their priorities should have been, whether they were in the fog or not.  Not doing the 'right thing' by the person who has been with them for so many years and given them so much of their lives, creates a kind of devastation the WS can't even begin to envisage.
Where did my protector go, the one who should have been by my side through thick and thin?  Where was he when I really truly needed his support more than ever? He ran away.  Looking back that's how it feels.

But knowing I'm not alone in feeling like I don't want him back, or would rather be alone,  makes me feel better.  I don't feel like I'm wrong for not wanting to try anymore. 
It really feels like it's all out of your control anyway, so 'let's just give up and see where the road takes us'...if you see what I mean.
What a situation to be in, I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy...
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sunflower07
My D day was early November and I have certainly lived with my WS's uncertainty. It took him almost 4 months to end it with her and put his wedding ring back on. I'm still angry he put me through the four months of misery. I was to the point that I was DONE and starting to think about filing for divorce. He FINALLY started going to counseling with me just this week. I still question if he has really ended contact with her. It's just so easy these days to keep up the contact with texting and email. I have bad dreams and wake up angry at him even though I don't have these thoughts when I'm awake. Early on, I wanted things to work so bad that I didn't allow myself to be angry. Well, the anger has finally surfaced!
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Kalmarjan
I came back to this after a while away. I feel. For you all, indeed I can't imagine how exhausting it would be to be in this situation after all this time.

I recently had a birthday getaway, and the topic of my AP came up. I found myself getting heated. Upset. How could my wife bring all this up and bring us there again, wasn't things better now?

But, because of your stories here, I realized what an ass I was. Yes, things ARE better, but forgiveness doesn't mean forgetting. It is a full 2 years afterDDay for us, and over a year since I got back, and things still come up.

I think the hurt will always be there, like a scar. Like the C section scar that I love about my wife, yet reminds her that she had one. If I touch it, she gets upset. I think this is the same thing.

That's why I don't understand why your WS can't see, after all this time. Is it too hard for them, or do they not want to be in the wrong? If they can't commit to making things better, man, I must say they are more lucky than they deserve to have you all still there.

I think I'll be working for the rest of my life to make up for this.

Oh, and the other day I was deep spring cleaning. I came across a picture my sister-in-law had made for us that has our wedding vows engraved in it. (We wrote our own vows to each other.) reading those, I realized that I lied. I didn't at the time I made them, but ultimately, I lied.

Will I ever make it up to her? I will spend the rest of my life getting there, If I have to, because it's the right thing to do. It's what I WANT to do.
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Guiltguilt
I hope every day you're grateful for the opportunity to make up for it.
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Dirazz
The truly remorseful WS will always feel guilt and shame when the BS shares their feelings about the betrayal. I think that's human nature. They don't want to be reminded of all the pain they've caused. I believe my husband finally understands how I still need to talk about it to heal and how ever painful it was for him for me to talk about it, it was 1000 times more painful for me. He told me the other day he can't even imagine how I feel after someone that I thought loved me so much, lied, deceived, and betrayed you!! To battle that internal hurt with the love that you still have for me. That's exactly the way I feel some days.
I'm glad he is starting to understand what's going on in my head and my heart. I don't know how some of you have had the strength for so long while your WS makes a decision. In my opinion what ever it's worth all of you that have given your spouses time to prove they want the marriage and time to show you they want the marriage have done all you can. If they don't see that you even trying to give them a second, third and even more for some is a gift I'm not sure they ever will? It's been all about what they want for too long as it is.
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Anna26
Kalmarjan:

Thank you, for your supportive and thoughtful words, as always it's good to hear the perspective of someone who has been through the fog and come out the other side a wiser person.

Dirazz:

I agree that a lot of spouses have had more than enough time to prove things.  I think for a lot of people who are in this situation it's now become more a case of doing what's best for yourself and if that means 'putting up' with how you have to live, then that's what you do.  For me now, it's more about finances because I know that given the right set of circumstances, my choices would be easier.
It's awful living in perpetual limbo because you are unable, as yet, to take that step out of it.  But one day, that day will arrive and I will be ready.

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Kalmarjan
Guiltguilt wrote:
I hope every day you're grateful for the opportunity to make up for it.


Well, the key is to remember it's not about being grateful so much as it is practising grace and humility through your actions. It really is what you choose to do with your chance that matters.

I'm reading Gary Chapman's Four Seasons of Marriage. What a great book. Highly recommended to navigate your way through the blizzard in the Winter of your marriage in infidelity.
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Fionarob
My husband could not ever see this point of view........he hated the thought of having to practise grace and humility after his affair.  His words were "I am not going to spend the rest of my life grovelling on my knees".......Nobody was asking him to do that, but it seems that's how he saw his life would be if he chose to commit to the marriage.

I hope he will see it all differently one day but it doesn't look like it's going to happen anytime soon.  I know it takes some people years to realise the damage caused and the way they viewed everything whilst in the fog of it all.  Maybe some people never face up to it.  I feel sad that I couldn't save him, that it will take the break up of a marriage where children will get hurt before he ever really sees what he has done. 

Or maybe I will be the one facing the fact that actually he wanted a way to leave the marriage, but just wasn't brave enough to do it himself.  He needed me to do it for him.
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Kalmarjan
Fionarob wrote:
My husband could not ever see this point of view........he hated the thought of having to practise grace and humility after his affair.  His words were "I am not going to spend the rest of my life grovelling on my knees".......Nobody was asking him to do that, but it seems that's how he saw his life would be if he chose to commit to the marriage.
.


Interestingly, I used to think the same thing. It was one of those things that I used to justify the continuation of my affair to myself. In other words, it was like, oh! I've messed things up here, and I better make the best of a bad situation.

It was later, after much reading and soul searching, that I realized that what I was actually doing was avoiding taking responsibility for my actions. I had a lot of growing up to do, and I'll tell you flat out, it was harder looking at myself, and what I had done and become, than anyone could ever judge me.

In the beginning, if only I had looked in the mirror, and swept all the bullish!t aside and asked myself a simple question:

Self? Are you truly okay with what you are doing here?

I mean, take away all the justification, blame, blame shifting, excuses, and other BS... And just get down to that question.

My answer was hell no. Otherwise, why would I need the justification?

It has been a long road, and I still haven't fully recovered. My career is in shambles, I've lost my confidence to lead, and the situation (temporarily) of finances is tight, but I do have my family back, and my wife too.
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Anna26
Fionarob wrote:
My husband could not ever see this point of view........he hated the thought of having to practise grace and humility after his affair.  His words were "I am not going to spend the rest of my life grovelling on my knees".......Nobody was asking him to do that, but it seems that's how he saw his life would be if he chose to commit to the marriage.

I hope he will see it all differently one day but it doesn't look like it's going to happen anytime soon.  I know it takes some people years to realise the damage caused and the way they viewed everything whilst in the fog of it all.  Maybe some people never face up to it.  I feel sad that I couldn't save him, that it will take the break up of a marriage where children will get hurt before he ever really sees what he has done. 

Or maybe I will be the one facing the fact that actually he wanted a way to leave the marriage, but just wasn't brave enough to do it himself.  He needed me to do it for him.



Once again Fiona, you could be reading my mind.  I truly believe my husband feels that he would spend the rest of his life with me bringing up the affair every five minutes and him having to grovel.

In reality, I just want to forget and put it all behind me, but he has never given me this opportunity.  I still feel as if I never had chance to have my say, to get it out of my system.  But of course to keep bringing it up later would make him feel bad wouldn't it and rub his nose in it.
Often I have wondered if the affair was a way out for him too, but it all seems to far fetched to comprehend.  He seemed happy enough.  Part of this thinking of course is the looking for someone or something to blame mentality, if things were okay then why was there a problem. 

And in the end we ARE the ones to solve the problem for them. Because they can't face breaking up a family, we have to be the strong ones, and quite honestly, to live with no changes, is worse than anything.
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Fionarob
Anna - yes totally agree with everything you say.  In the end for me it was several things that led me to decide on ending the marriage, but one comment that someone said actually really struck me.  They said you need to start standing up for what you believe in.  So I asked myself, what do I believe?  Do I think I should be enduring my husband's 2.5 year affair, doing all the fixing and letting him continue his affair?  Do I believe I am so worthless that I should just put up with it time and time again?  Do I want to bring up my children whilst feeling constantly stressed and anxious?  The answer to all of them was of course NO.

It made me feel empowered finally, after years of feeling weak and out of control.  I know I deserve a better life than constantly living with this pattern of him returning, making promises and then breaking them again.  I admit I am very frightened of a future being a single parent, I haven't been single for 19 years.  But the thought of being in this same situation another year from now was worse, and it just doesn't look like my husband is ever going to make the changes he needs to make to break the pattern.
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Anna26
Fionarob wrote:
Anna - yes totally agree with everything you say.  In the end for me it was several things that led me to decide on ending the marriage, but one comment that someone said actually really struck me.  They said you need to start standing up for what you believe in.  So I asked myself, what do I believe?  Do I think I should be enduring my husband's 2.5 year affair, doing all the fixing and letting him continue his affair?  Do I believe I am so worthless that I should just put up with it time and time again?  Do I want to bring up my children whilst feeling constantly stressed and anxious?  The answer to all of them was of course NO.

It made me feel empowered finally, after years of feeling weak and out of control.  I know I deserve a better life than constantly living with this pattern of him returning, making promises and then breaking them again.  I admit I am very frightened of a future being a single parent, I haven't been single for 19 years.  But the thought of being in this same situation another year from now was worse, and it just doesn't look like my husband is ever going to make the changes he needs to make to break the pattern.



Absolutely Fiona, it does make you feel as though you have taken some of your power back.  And I think that strength comes from actually making the decision to change something. 
It's slightly different for you in that your children are a lot younger than mine, that's a big responsibility even  if your husband is willing to do his bit too.  Even though mine are older, they still live at home and so I always have their interests at heart too.

But I admit to being rather frightened too, at the prospect of life on my own, (I'm not at the carpet slippers and knitting stage yet, lol,) it's rather scary when you have been used to someone being there 24/7.  You begin to doubt what you are capable of alone.  And we shouldn't because we are neither worthless or weak. For years I've felt like I have had no confidence or self esteem, I've been so absorbed in the well being of everyone else.

But now, it will be time for me, (and you). We are important and worth it and it may be difficult, but we will get through.  And who knows what future we will create for ourselves?
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