TimePassing
I have been reading here and other forums for almost 3 years now.

There have been multiple DD's due to 3 affairs, 2 physical, and 1 supposed emotional affair. I say supposed because the latest affair partner is pregnant now and the timing is coincidentally in line with when they were carrying on.

I do not like what all the lies and deceptions and betrayals have done to me or my life. I am so incredibly tired of being lied to and having reality denied.

The only versions of truth I ever get are ones I have to fight or beg for endlessly. It feels like a "catch me if you can game" and then when black and white proof is offered up the version of "truth" simply shifts.

I am not sure which is more frustrating or soul crushing the original lie, the denials, the justifications, the excuses, or the deflections, and shifting of blame and manipulations that follow.

There has not been a week nevermind a month in 3 years that there has not been some deception or betrayal exposed.

I am so angry with myself for allowing myself to be in this situation. It is hard to match heart and head and cope with all the never ending bs coming my way as well as my own internal dialogue associated with the shame and humiliation of allowing someone to constantly treat me with such disrespect.

The latest affair came to light in June. Followed by a month of drip fed truths, followed by more justifications that he wasn't getting enough attention, followed by more deflections and settling nicely into him constantly indicating what I must do.

Its always "you don't want to heal" - yes actually I do unfortunately the lack of honesty, lack of truth, and constant 3 day cycle of BS continuing make moving forward next to impossible. 
The other favorite is "it takes BOTH of us trying to make it a safe environment for the relationship" ... which I do not think is possible until there are some serious changes made to ensure it is safe for me to even consider taking the risk of trying again.
We have tried couples counseling 4 different times over the past 3 years, and he has bounced through many counselors to deal with various issues but the lies, affairs, sneaking around, omissions etc continue.  I refuse to attend couples counseling again until certain things change because it is humiliating and frustrating to deal with the jekle/hyde and have no progress made in reality.

Just over a month ago I had our baby. He of course cheated while I was pregnant, among other lies and omissions and sneaking around. While pregnant he got upset and as usual when he is upset he just says whatever he wants no matter how much it hurts so he denies the paternity (he has since apologized). The baby was born via c-section and so major surgery with post op conditions.  He then turns back to porn and blows over 200 watching it, as well as surfing it on the new company phone. Of course he apparently "didn't know porn was an issue" for me.
and of course it was my fault since i was not "willing" to accommodate his sexual appetite. The thing is (sorry if TMI) his first affair happened when his sexual appetite was getting accommodated 3x a day 7 days a week, accommodating his needs has rapidly fallen as priority for me with each lie, each bit of drip fed information, and 2 more affairs...and then adjusting to a newborn and recovering from surgery. Its just another slap in the face.

He says as he has many times before he has done the work, and he "gets it" and he takes ownership. To me it just feels like he continues to do whatever he pleases, then when/if caught and pinned into a corner he says he is sorry and then carries on as if nothing happened. He constantly says well its been 3 days since my last lie or this or that. Well that was 5 months ago so "its in the past". To me each daily action/choice is the present when it is occurring and after 3 years one would make different choices in the PRESENT to stop using "the past" as an excuse.  Or a flip comment saying "its my fault, I own this" but then the entire facial expression, demeanor, body language and 50 other comments communicating the exact opposite.

I don't want to spend my life playing detective or going through his phone/email or FB because its all just an illusion of security anyway since where there is a will there is a way and all it does it make me crazy and even if I find anything its just more lies, denials, deflections, or "sorry" and "its in the past" anyway.  He just got a new work phone and suddenly 2 additional gmail addresses that of course he didn't set up the ladies in the office had to set it up for abode and office suite to be downloaded, and a poker chat room and a slot game...none of these mentioned of course I had to find them. He still will call and say heading home...He will say he is "heading home" but leave out the stopping off at x or y for x or y and feels anything even remotely connected to work is a free pass...be it texting/calling female customers or stopping by there place, or dropping off/picking up employees, or any and all random people having his cell with calls and texts. Where is the transparency? where is the investment into behaviors or actions that reassure me that I am safe in this sham of a relationship.

Yes he has started IC again, but really that only seems to reignite the FOO issues and a whole bunch more comments that come across as one big old pity party.

I don't even know what I'm looking for posting here. Maybe just to vent. Maybe just that someone can relate. Maybe someone to tell me I am not crazy that the behaviors and comments are not someone owning what they have done or ensuring it is safe emotionally for me to risk reconciliation. 
Maybe my idea of what remorse and empathy and compassion look like are completely off base.

I can't seem to get past being so angry and hurt because there is never any stability....it's constantly something new. I am no longer able to twist myself into a pretzel or walk on eggshells or stifle my feelings and thoughts but its pointless to say anything because its like talking to a wall and everything is turned around to be about how he cant come to me for emotional support, how I am not trying enough or long enough.
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Kalmarjan
I don't blame you for being angry. Your husband is acting like an ass. How he believes you should give him your trust when he continuously destroys his own credibility by his actions is beyond me.

In this case, I'd have to gently remind you that you are the one who calls the shots in your life. You get to decide whether this ass gets to continue doing this to you, and whether he deserves your love.

What he is doing has nothing to do with remorse, or his demonstration that he will never do this again. He is expecting you to get over a traumatic experience whilst continuing to do it to you. That makes no sense whatsoever. It sounds as if he is a bit of a spoilt brat, wanting to rush through forgiveness yet not even pay for what he has done.

I can tell you that watching and reading other BS here has given me an insight on how my actions affected my wife, and I am horrified at the person I became. I still work towards making things better between my wife and I, and I fear that I will never be able to make it the same ever again.

I certainly haven't repeated, nor will I ever repeat what I did.

The boards here will give you some insight. I'm sorry you're in this situation. YOU CERTAINLY DON'T DESERVE IT.

The whole concept of "it's your fault" that he cheated is from him framing it that way because he is far too immature to take responsibility for his actions. The first order of business in recovery from an affair is taking responsibility and ownership of your actions and taking steps to ENSURE THAT YOU NEVER DO THIS AGAIN.
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AHmember113
I am not a counselor but I believe you need professional counseling for yourself only. The relationship you describe continues because of co-dependency on your part. It is scary but you must think of yourself and your child. in what you describe he shows no evidence of true change which is a huge red flag. You cannot continue in a relationship which is unhealthy and harming you.
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flight

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The latest affair came to light in June. Followed by a month of drip fed truths, followed by more justifications that he wasn't getting enough attention, followed by more deflections and settling nicely into him constantly indicating what I must do.


How does him not getting enough attention cause multiple breaches of ethical behavior? How can what YOU do control HIS behavior?

His manipulations are working on you and I imagine, especially with a new baby, you are feelind dependent and needing him. He probably knows this. I hope you find counseling for yourself and work through why you would allow that level of disrespect for you to continue. Empower yourself! Then you can make the right choices for yourself.

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TimT
TimePassing wrote:
...I don't even know what I'm looking for posting here. Maybe just to vent. Maybe just that someone can relate. Maybe someone to tell me I am not crazy that the behaviors and comments are not someone owning what they have done or ensuring it is safe emotionally for me to risk reconciliation. Maybe my idea of what remorse and empathy and compassion look like are completely off base...

I've been watching to see if you would post follow-up to this, TimePassing. I'm sorry you've been caught up in a painful, messy cycle. 

Here's the thing: remorse & sorrow aren't enough. Unfaithful partners can be genuinely sorry & remorseful for many reasons (including the regret of hurting others, shame, and the pains of being caught). But those responses only bring about temporary change if they do not move deeper, becoming the kind of repentance that leads to permanent change.

And sometimes it's hard to tell the difference at first. That's why time is a necessary ingredient for healing. (Trust = Time + The Right Stuff) If he has a pattern of returning the the same behavior, than that is the clearest evidence that his remorse does not go deep enough. He is sorry for external things, not for who he has become. And until he becomes desperate to change himself, you will be at risk.

Since this has happened repeatedly, you likely require a long period of consistent trustworthy behavior until you can even begin settling down emotionally. The work of rebuilding trust is his, not yours. 

Has too much been broken by now?
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TimePassing

AHmember113 – I have been in individual counselling. It’s been a long road these past 3 years when his deceptions and double life first came to light and while he has made some changes in certain aspects of life anything truly meaningful or beyond surface level still seems to be a ways off, if ever. Mostly now I am focussing on becoming peaceful with the fact that I have certainly given him every opportunity despite what he says/thinks and  reaffirming that while I am certainly not perfect it is not my shame at being cheated on and lied to and creating healthy boundaries for myself.

 

flight wrote:

How does him not getting enough attention cause multiple breaches of ethical behavior? How can what YOU do control HIS behavior?

Flight: I have tried to ask that...I can explain/ask these types of things but cannot make him understand them. I am not dependent on him financially. The way he wears me down is with his guilt trips and constant verbal manipulations. I am simply calling them as I see them now as it is becoming one big old pity party with him constantly rewriting “the past” to ensure he doesn’t have to own his behaviors. I am not dependent on him as he has not lived with me since the start of the year. So I am doing the 24/7 parenting thing and he doesn’t understand what that entails or the additional resentment attached to that and simply throws that in my face as my choice to not have him live here – when the reason he is not back living here is he chose to continue with the double life, the lying, the betrayals etc.

Kalmarjan wrote:
The first order of business in recovery from an affair is taking responsibility and ownership of your actions and taking steps to ENSURE THAT YOU NEVER DO THIS AGAIN.

Kalmarjan – I am constantly being told it takes “forgiveness” or “trust” on my part... yet I still do date do not even have full disclosure. He figures the countless lies he tells are “little lies” not major things like another full blown affair and seems to think I should just get over it, to me that is minimizing. To me until there is a full stop to any lying, deceptions, omissions, drip feeding etc there is no forward movement. Then would come full disclosure etc. I can’t “forgive” when every few days there is another issue, or when I don’t have full facts on what I would be forgiving. I am coming to peace with walking away because I do not believe I will ever have full disclosure because I am beginning to believe he is incapable of being truly honest. The way I hear what he says is he expects me to commit “or else” he won’t do the work. Well I was committed and present and doing the work and he was the one off living  his double life. So again the “threat” doesn’t compute.

TimT wrote:


Here's the thing: remorse & sorrow aren't enough. Unfaithful partners can be genuinely sorry & remorseful for many reasons (including the regret of hurting others, shame, and the pains of being caught). But those responses only bring about temporary change if they do not move deeper, becoming the kind of repentance that leads to permanent change.

And sometimes it's hard to tell the difference at first. That's why time is a necessary ingredient for healing. (Trust = Time + The Right Stuff) If he has a pattern of returning the the same behavior, than that is the clearest evidence that his remorse does not go deep enough. He is sorry for external things, not for who he has become. And until he becomes desperate to change himself, you will be at risk.

Since this has happened repeatedly, you likely require a long period of consistent trustworthy behavior until you can even begin settling down emotionally. The work of rebuilding trust is his, not yours. 

Has too much been broken by now?

 

TimT:  Yes the pattern of returning to the same behavior is my biggest clue.  Thank you for stating that the work of rebuilding trust is his not mine as he constantly is going at me to just believe the latest version of his supposed full disclosure.

 

I do think it is at the point where too much has been broken. He expects me to commit to continuing to be faithful, to reassure him, to support him through his “breakdowns”,  and all his emotions, ....and he doesn’t get that the bank is empty.  He truly shows zero insight into the emotional toll 3 years of his betrayals have taken on me and even that he throws in my face expecting me to turn to him for support  - why would I do that when he is constantly letting me down? When he lies to my face all.the.time.  I have nothing left to give/offer because he has depleted all the resources with the crap he has pulled and continues to pull....but that too becomes more manipulations in me not caring about him or his “feelings”.  Those feelings generally come across as deflections, blame shifting, a pity party, attempted guilt trips or thinly veiled innuendos or accusations.  It is almost laughable when he tries to get me to continue to “commit” to him/us because he hasn’t been committed to us/me – so regardless of what I do/don’t do, say/don’t say he still lies, cheats etc.  The word “Time” is a bit of a trigger for me as he is constantly saying well its been 3 days or 1 week etc since the last lie...well the last lie I called him on or he somewhat came clean on after much drip feeding. He constantly tells me he needs more “time” and after time passes I will see things have changed. Or that somehow it is my flaw for not putting enough weight on the changes he has made in x amount of “time” and I guess ignore the affairs, the lies, the porn, the extra emails, the double life sneaking around etc. It’s truly just one big old mindF**k.  I do get what you mean though...yes it would need to be a massive amount of time passing at this point with proper consistent behavior being demonstrated for me to even begin to trust again.

 

At this stage I have told him I won’t read his texts/messages unless they are about our baby.  There is no point covering the same ground over and over again. I simply cannot wrap my head around how he sees things.  If he wants to write a final full time line and go over it with his IC and then perhaps arrange a joint session to review it once and for all if there are things that need to be discussed than fine. I don’t need the constant texts/calls/voicemails/emails where he drip feeds, then offers up an insincere apology, and if he doesn’t get the response he wants instantly starts in on the attempted guilt trips, blameshifting, deflections, excuses, justifications or sending baiting texts in an attempt to get me to respond and then he can go after me for not responding correctly or for being angry or for not believing him.

 

He insists on couples counseling, but to me that is useless as we have tried (obviously by we I mean me as he was still living his double life and cheating and lying the whole time), and there are things I needed to see before even considering couples counseling as I don’t agree his infidelity or dishonesty or other issues are joint issues/communications issues...they are things to be address in IC first. I am starting to feel like he is using the time he is to see the baby as another venue to carry on his manipulations as well and his interest in the baby is no more real than his interest in anyone else.

 

Sorry, all over the place again. This is why I am taking time away to focus on other parts of my life.  Establishing as much peace and calmness and happiness as I can.

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