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MC
Keepabuzz wrote:


I have always had difficulty with part of this view.  I agree that the old marriage was not wonderful. I also would not want it back. BUT, my marriage was never vulnerable to an affair, I was never vulnerable to an affair, ONLY my wife was vulnerable to an affair. I was vulnerable to ending that marriage, and had been for some time. I lived on that edge for years. I was never on the edge of having an affair. It just not something I would ever do.  It’s very similar to some WS’s on here saying “you never know what you would do”. That very well my be true, but I know with certainty that I “wouldn’t”, and that’s to have an affair, before my wife’s affair, and only with even more certainty after her affair. Betrayal is a choice. It’s not like saying if you ride your bike without a helmet that you are vulnerable to a head injury. While you certainly are in that example. For it to fit for an affair you would have to ride your bike without a helmet, then ride it really fast down a huge hill and aim for the cliff at the bottom.  Not and accident, a decision. Likely many decisions. 


I totally respect this position.  No doubt our WS had full agency a the time of their decision and are entirely culpable.  They made a choice to betray.

I think a good question to ask is: "are there factors that can exist in a marriage that increase the risk that betrayal will occur?"

Male BS, D-day 3-15-2017
________________
Male BS
D-Day 3.15.2017


Taking care of myself, as we all deserve to do.
Encouraging all to bolster their: Emotional Health, Physical Health and Spiritual Health
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Awakened
This topic has come up a few times in MC and in our discussions. And a lot of the time in my head
her choice she agrees. The marriage had problems we agree. But I didn’t cheat, that just was not on my radar, and as bad as it was I didn’t think it was on hers. If you asked me before AF I probably would say she’d leave before cheat. 
She plays up that she is more flawed than I wanted (unrealistic idea she was perfect, she has said) to believe. She says I’m just a much better person than her. 
Its not a competition. I honored our vows. I have my faults but that was a higher ideal for moral and religious reasons. I owed it to her and to my self to honor my vows. 
I don’t want to boast about what you’re supposed to do (Chris rock reference)
am I really to feel like a goody goody because I didn’t think cheating was an option? I am sad if that is how things are 
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Keepabuzz
MC wrote:


I totally respect this position.  No doubt our WS had full agency a the time of their decision and are entirely culpable.  They made a choice to betray.

I think a good question to ask is: "are there factors that can exist in a marriage that increase the risk that betrayal will occur?"

Male BS, D-day 3-15-2017


As always, to each their own. The factor that is exists that increases a person’s risk of betrayal is lack of integrity. Any other “factors” in my opinion, are nothing more than excuses. 

In comparison the a man hitting his wife. Could he say, well if she hadn’t started off, I would not have been vulnerable to smacking her?  That doesn’t hold water either. 
Male BS, D-day July 2015, trying to stay out of the dark.....
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anthropoidape
Keepabuzz wrote:


As always, to each their own. The factor that is exists that increases a person’s risk of betrayal is lack of integrity. Any other “factors” in my opinion, are nothing more than excuses. 


I think there's a difference between  what a WS can say in their defence (which is basically nothing) and what, as a BS or outsider, you can identify as a factor.

In some cases there is a stronger tendency toward self-destructive behaviour in a WS than in the BS. They respond self-destructively to stress more than the rest of us.
 
Then there is also stupidity or at least blindness. Among the many reasons I would never have an affair is the fact that I can foresee pretty clearly how terrible the consequences would be. It's the same reason I don't use drugs - in the case of drugs, I have no moral problem with (say) heroin use but the consequences of being a heroin addict are foreseeable to me. 

Narcissism is another. Some people are more self-focused than others are, sometimes to a pathological degree. WSes are often more narcissistic. Maybe related is a lack of capacity for empathy. Cheats are often just a little further along the spectrum from Mother Theresa to Ted Bundy than other people, even if we are all mostly bunched around the middle. 

In some cases a weaker personality is a factor; falling under the sway of the AP and the AP's arguments about why it is okay. 

These factors don't change the grave wrongness of cheating at all but they are factors in a person's makeup that make cheating more likely. They aren't good qualities either of course. And a cheat who pleads narcissism or self-destructiveness as excuses is not going to be well received. But as a BS trying to make sense of it all I find these things relevant to my understanding. They also give me things to look out for as changes in my spouse post-affair. I can't detect integrity too easily but I can see changes in empathy and self-destructiveness.

Just to add, thinking about the empathy thing. My wife's empathy vanished during the affair. It was interesting. She became someone who could hear about a school shooting and say yeah well stuff happens, who cares? Whereas previously and since she could cry about a news story involving children. 

It may be reassuring to you if you can see why your wife's integrity fell short beyond just the integrity itself, because you may be able to see change in other areas more easily than you can see changes in integrity... integrity only really shows when tested but other factors can show all the time.
Maybe it is okay, maybe it will be okay.

BS, d-day Feb 2017, 16 mth affair.
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MC


I think there's a difference between  what a WS can say in their defence (which is basically nothing) and what, as a BS or outsider, you can identify as a factor.

It may be reassuring to you if you can see why your wife's integrity fell short beyond just the integrity itself, because you may be able to see change in other areas more easily than you can see changes in integrity... integrity only really shows when tested but other factors can show all the time.


Anthro, this really resonates with me.  There is no defense that justifies an affair.  If my wife had been defensive that would have been a non-starter and a dead end path. 

What I am interested in is factors that made the infidelity more of a risk than it would have been without those factors.  The thought being that if a factor can be identified, then the BS can measure improvement and restitution in the AP and improvement in the marriage.  If the risk remains the same, what is the point of staying?  But if the risk is adequately mitigated then there is hope that the new marriage will be better fortified against a repeat of such a terrible crisis.

Male BS, D-day 3.15.17
________________
Male BS
D-Day 3.15.2017


Taking care of myself, as we all deserve to do.
Encouraging all to bolster their: Emotional Health, Physical Health and Spiritual Health
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