jasmine Show full post »
AnywhereButHere

"If you have some kind of inherent quality that means you are always on the brink of infidelity unless you guard against it then you should not be in a monogamous relationship, and only a lunatic would knowingly stay in a monogamous relationship with you."

And it's for this reason that I forsook snooping, investigating, monitoring. If my marriage needs snooping in order to continue existing...then maybe I shouldn't be so concerned about preventing its destruction.

 

BH, 5+ Mo EA, DDay 3/8/18
"...regarding all as God after God."
Quote 2 0
Keepabuzz
I agree with Anthro. If I thought my wife had to put constant effort into not being deceitful, or screwing other men, there is no way in the world I would stay with her. I also did a few things as child, that I would never do again. I don’t have to consciously work to avoid doing those things I remember how it made me feel, and I would never do those things again, ever. 
Male BS, D-day July 2015, trying to stay out of the dark.....
Quote 2 0
stillme
I guess for me, I just won't ever fully trust a person that violated my trust in the past. I get that some people are very forgiving or think that it will never happen again.

However, I am one of those people that honestly thought my WS would NEVER go outside the marriage. I just didn't think he was built like that. In fact, he didn't think he was built like that. D-day was a complete and total shock to me. It was the gut punch of all gut punches because I just honestly didn't think he would betray in that way. I didn't think he was perfect, but someone that would cheat? Absolutely not.

So, I am not niece enough to assume that it will never happen again. Now, he knows if it ever does happen again, he is out of not only my house, by my life for good. He has put everything in place to ensure he doesn't do things that would put him in a position to cheat. I don't check up on him, I don't put tracers on his car or track his phone. He checks in during the day because he chooses to. 

However, I feel like I would be a fool saying, "I trust him completely." Heck no. That level of trust is gone. Do I think he is fighting the urge weekly, hourly, daily? Absolutely not. He is putting in too much work trying to be the person we both that he was in the first place. He is putting in the work of being a better husband, a better father, a better man. I don't 'think' he would be crazy enough to violate the marriage again. However, I would never be so bold as to save "absolutely never". 

I get it, some folks can believe it won't happen again. I tend to be a realist and say that if something 'has' happened before, it is possible to happen again. Do I think my husband would be stupid enough to risk our marriage? Nope. But, honestly - I didn't think he was stupid enough to do it the first time.
Quote 3 0
Keepabuzz
I agree completely stillme. Not only is that trust gone forever with my wife, but with anyone. I also knew my wife wasn’t perfect, but neither am I. But there is a huge gap between imperfect, we all make mistakes, and having an affair. Much the same as the difference in stealing a piece of gum, and murder. Both are wrong, but one is far, far worse. I made mistakes during our marriage, so did she, but only one of us went and had an affair and destroyed the other. That is so far past “a mistake”, it’s hard to describe. 
Male BS, D-day July 2015, trying to stay out of the dark.....
Quote 0 0
jasmine

From what I read here, I don’t think trust is ever restored. I can’t trust my husband like I used to. I don’t think trust can ever feel the same or look the same or sound the same again. My husband seems to think I SHOULD trust and feel a strange mix of hurt and angry that I can’t. He doesn’t “get” betrayal at all. He has told stupid lies over stupid things since d day and can’t quite see how damaging ANY kind of lie is, not just over issues of fidelity and betrayal.

 I always try to do best, to understand his side of the story, but I don’t think he does the same for me. On the few occasions when I’ve explained some very important issues that are significant for me, his reaction has been one of silence. A non reaction. That has been soul destroying, but he just doesn’t have the skill of empathy. But then again, that’s just me trying to understand him all over again and I feel not just sad but a bit foolish too. Foolish for not standing up for myself in the past, foolish for falling for his lies, foolish for wanting to forgive, foolish for being too ‘understanding’.

He tries, but sometimes he fails to grasp what betrayal feels like. There’s enough effort and initiative on his part to try and put things right. That’s why I keep trying. 

Quote 0 0
Skelling
stillme wrote:
I guess for me, I just won't ever fully trust a person that violated my trust in the past. I get that some people are very forgiving or think that it will never happen again.

However, I am one of those people that honestly thought my WS would NEVER go outside the marriage. I just didn't think he was built like that. In fact, he didn't think he was built like that. D-day was a complete and total shock to me. It was the gut punch of all gut punches because I just honestly didn't think he would betray in that way. I didn't think he was perfect, but someone that would cheat? Absolutely not.

So, I am not niece enough to assume that it will never happen again. Now, he knows if it ever does happen again, he is out of not only my house, by my life for good. He has put everything in place to ensure he doesn't do things that would put him in a position to cheat. I don't check up on him, I don't put tracers on his car or track his phone. He checks in during the day because he chooses to. 

However, I feel like I would be a fool saying, "I trust him completely." Heck no. That level of trust is gone. Do I think he is fighting the urge weekly, hourly, daily? Absolutely not. He is putting in too much work trying to be the person we both that he was in the first place. He is putting in the work of being a better husband, a better father, a better man. I don't 'think' he would be crazy enough to violate the marriage again. However, I would never be so bold as to save "absolutely never". 

I get it, some folks can believe it won't happen again. I tend to be a realist and say that if something 'has' happened before, it is possible to happen again. Do I think my husband would be stupid enough to risk our marriage? Nope. But, honestly - I didn't think he was stupid enough to do it the first time.


This is very much true for me as well and I believe this is why its so hard for me to "get past" this. I never expected that my husband had it in him not only to cheat but also deceive and betray me the way he did. I don't think I will be able to ever trust like that again. And although we have come a real long way, there are still things that make me fear, he would, given the right circumstances, not be able to avoid a similar situation. And a simple: "I learned my lesson and I will never let it get that far", is not enough for me to feel safe. I need to SEE the steps he takes in him in order to MAKE SURE, he won't even get close to a situation like that ever again only then, can I start building trust in him and his words again. An just like Jasmine said, I see he is trying and working on him, which keeps me wanting to stay but I am still not sure, if it will be enough to trust and feel safe again.
Quote 0 0
Keepabuzz
Safe is tough. I will never feel as safe as I did before my wife’s affair. I do feel safe right now, but I have no idea what tomorrow will bring. My wife has a hard time with this. She feels that after all this time, and all her effort she has done all she can do to make me feel safe, and she has. That doesn’t mean I ever will feel safe again for the long term, because I won’t.  It’s like having your leg amputated because someone ran it over, and then after 4 years they say “I’ve done so much to help you get better, why can’t you run 5ks again?  Well, I don’t have a leg, that’s why. Sure we can get prosthetics, etc, but it will never be the same. You still have ghost pains, aching, etc. for life. It can’t be undone.  
Male BS, D-day July 2015, trying to stay out of the dark.....
Quote 1 0
Skelling
For me its some personality traits within him that on the one hand attracted me to him on the other hand they played a big role in the affair as well. He says he is trying to change that but can't promise that he will be succesful because this is who he is. And I just don't know, if I will be ok with that. He says he won't ever let it get that far but to me its even the little steps that ultimately lead to the last step an I just don't trust that he then will be able to make a different choice. I need him to avoid even those little steps. i get it must be hard for him and frustrating because he is so used to that but I have trouble trusting that he will be able to get him out of a similar situation. i need to be sure, he does everything to not even get there in the first place. I don't know I guess thats something we have to discuss in mc.
Quote 0 0
AnywhereButHere
I define 'trust' as the day when her phone dinging, especially at night, or she takes it into the bathroom or she's on her computer emailing or when she's out by herself meeting clients or friends...the day when I don't automatically have "what if" thoughts. And like the rest of you, I don't know if that day is ever going to come.
BH, 5+ Mo EA, DDay 3/8/18
"...regarding all as God after God."
Quote 2 0
Keepabuzz
Skelling wrote:
For me its some personality traits within him that on the one hand attracted me to him on the other hand they played a big role in the affair as well. He says he is trying to change that but can't promise that he will be succesful because this is who he is. And I just don't know, if I will be ok with that. He says he won't ever let it get that far but to me its even the little steps that ultimately lead to the last step an I just don't trust that he then will be able to make a different choice. I need him to avoid even those little steps. i get it must be hard for him and frustrating because he is so used to that but I have trouble trusting that he will be able to get him out of a similar situation. i need to be sure, he does everything to not even get there in the first place. I don't know I guess thats something we have to discuss in mc.



What personality traits? “I won’t let it go that far”. That statement alone would send me to divorce. Going that far means it already started. If my wife even flirted with another man, I would be out. I have ZERO tolerance. 
Male BS, D-day July 2015, trying to stay out of the dark.....
Quote 1 0
Skelling
He has always been very open and friendly and wants to leave a good impression, I guess wanting to be liked. I wouldn't consider it flirting but I can see that it easily become that, even if he doesn't intend to be interpreted like that. There was an incident the other day, when he switched to another language because the woman he spoke to was foreign. (old and not attractive therfore he didn't see the harm...) I told him I was triggered by that (because the OW was foreign as well and he did the same for her) He told me he understood but because he told me about it and she was no threat, I didn't need to feel that way. However, to me that goes beyond being friendly and is the first tiny step, which easily could be explained away and lead to the next step and the next and so on. He tells me, he knows now what not to do and that it only becomes an issue, if he is uber friendly with the same person on a number of occasions but once is acceptable. I see it differntly and he has an issue with that because he tells me that this is him and he can't be grumpy and introvert... So I can see why he is getting frustrated but I also see how those little seemingly innocent things can lead to crossing a line. And just because he tells me he won't, doesn't make  me feel safe and trust that because frankly I feel its overestimating oneself, if they say oh I will be in control and be able to manage. That trust isn't there anymore. And also you don't have control over how your seemingly little actions and innocent words are percieved by others. Maybe its an issue I have but I am a burnt child I saw what it can do and I am doing anything in my power to protect me to ever feel like that ever again.
Quote 1 0
Keepabuzz

Skelling wrote:
He has always been very open and friendly and wants to leave a good impression, I guess wanting to be liked. I wouldn't consider it flirting but I can see that it easily become that, even if he doesn't intend to be interpreted like that. There was an incident the other day, when he switched to another language because the woman he spoke to was foreign. (old and not attractive therfore he didn't see the harm...) I told him I was triggered by that (because the OW was foreign as well and he did the same for her) He told me he understood but because he told me about it and she was no threat, I didn't need to feel that way. However, to me that goes beyond being friendly and is the first tiny step, which easily could be explained away and lead to the next step and the next and so on. He tells me, he knows now what not to do and that it only becomes an issue, if he is uber friendly with the same person on a number of occasions but once is acceptable. I see it differntly and he has an issue with that because he tells me that this is him and he can't be grumpy and introvert... So I can see why he is getting frustrated but I also see how those little seemingly innocent things can lead to crossing a line. And just because he tells me he won't, doesn't make  me feel safe and trust that because frankly I feel its overestimating oneself, if they say oh I will be in control and be able to manage. That trust isn't there anymore. And also you don't have control over how your seemingly little actions and innocent words are percieved by others. Maybe its an issue I have but I am a burnt child I saw what it can do and I am doing anything in my power to protect me to ever feel like that ever again.


The second he told you how “you shouldn’t feel that way”, if my wife said that to me? I would/will let the anger loose and make it clear to her that I DO feel that way, and the reason I do is 100% her fault!  Secondly, I would inform her she doesn’t get to decide what I feel or don’t feel!  


So if he interacts with an attractive woman multiple times, then he will likely have sex with her?  Wow!  He is literally telling you he is not safe, and that he will very likely betray you again. It’s a matter of time. People who are truly remorseful don’t say things like that. Betraying you again shouldn’t be an option in his mind, as opposed to what he is telling you  “I’m really trying to not have sex with other women. As long as I don’t flirt with one more than once or twice I should be fine. If my wife said literally anything in the same universe as that we would be getting divorced. 

Male BS, D-day July 2015, trying to stay out of the dark.....
Quote 0 0
hurting
Skelling, I think the thing here that WS-Bob needs to understand is that it’s not about whether you ‘need to feel that way’. As I have said to my husband many times (and just did again now as we had another disagreement), I do not CHOOSE to feel this way. I did not EVER want to choose to be unsafe. But his choices in the past have made many things unsafe for you. None of us should have ever had to live with being suspicious or hurt or triggered. Yet we are. Because of their past choices. Not because we CHOSE or WANT to feel unsafe or triggered. They gave these to us. We had NO SAY. They tore the very concept of safety from us with their betrayal.

It is up to the WS to do everything in their power to not make us unsafe again. To minimise such triggers. They do NOT get to tell us to ‘not feel that way’. Firstly we have no control on how we feel towards certain situations. A trigger is a trigger. None of us chose to have ANY of them. Secondly even if we (lol) somehow ‘chose’ to feel a particular way, the WS is not in any position to tell us to feel otherwise. They do not need to understand or agree that something may be a trigger. All they really need to understand is that it IS a trigger and choose to act accordingly. Keeping the BS safe and not actively triggering them by doing things that make them feel unsafe needs to be the WS’s top priority.

I feel my WS too, struggles here. He knows better than to tell me that I ‘shouldn’t feel that way’ but it often comes across to me as such. Every single time, it does NOT go down well.

He might say ‘but I am doing everything to make you feel safe’. The caveat to THAT, is that the only reason I feel UNSAFE at all is because of you! Doing it right right now doesn’t mean I am safe and everything is fine. My trust and safety were damaged badly. They don’t just go back to being ‘intact’. I’m pretty sure that will never be the same again.
Quote 2 0
AnywhereButHere
The biggest temper trigger for me has always been insinuating that I'm over-reacting or feeling inappropriate. These days, my wife tells me that I'm making more of her emotional affair "in my mind" than it really was. The next time I get that, I've got a doc on my phone to bring up...just a collection of things SHE TOLD ME about her affair and what I found in emails between the two of them. Those two things comprise 95% of the basis of what I feel. I haven't made it into anything else "In my mind".
BH, 5+ Mo EA, DDay 3/8/18
"...regarding all as God after God."
Quote 1 0
Keepabuzz
About 2 weeks after d-day, I was a complete mess laying in the bathroom floor. Literally crying, writhing in pain so deep I couldn’t begin to describe it, completely in shock still, and my wife walked in and said “you’re just feeling sorry for yourself”. That is the very cruelest thing she ever said to me. More cruel than all the things she had ever said. That was the cruelest. I fully believe that if I had not been in such a state of shock I very well may have done something that would have earned me substantial prison time, or earned me a casket. That was also the last cruel thing she ever said to me. Now, all it would take would be the slightest hint of cruelty, and I would be done and off to the lawyers.  
Male BS, D-day July 2015, trying to stay out of the dark.....
Quote 0 0