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Intuition77 wrote:

Which if I can say kal was the point I was trying to make days ago in that other thread though I don't think I was expressing it clearly. That the judgement needs to be ones own. That a WS who truly won't cheat again is one whose done the work on themselves and doesn't want to betray their spouse or their own standards. Those who stay faithful aren't never tempted or better people they just choose to be honest with themselves and keep their own standards. Anyone who is only faithful because they don't want to get caught or their afraid of the consequences will I believe eventually cheat, it's really ones own beliefs. Once someone allows their beliefs to change by excuses justifying blaming they really need to get honest and take the personal responsibility to change their life or else it snowballs. I see in my husband that in order to start the affair he had to change his beliefs justify his reasons and rather then own them and make changes he chose to keep blaming and believing excuses & now takes no responsibility for anything. The difference I was trying to point out but couldn't figure out how was basically based on our beliefs and standards for ourselves when we do wrong things our choices are
1. Stand up, own it fully as ours, figure it out and basically say wow look I was such an a**hole and I behaved horribly. It's hard to do that. To do so you have to actually love yourself enough to believe you can change that about yourself and be better. And it takes work and effort and constant honesty.
2. Blame others or circumstances. Make excuses and justifications for why you did what you did. Seems easier. Seems kinder to oneself. Except it's not. Because if you choose 2 you'll never really believe in yourself. And nothing will change because you've morphed your personal responsibility into something that always has an out or excuse.

So what I was trying to say is most WS seem to have this anger at judgement and society when what it really is is their own judgement of themselves they can't accept. Because if they truly morally didn't object to what they had done they wouldn't have hid it and therefore it wouldn't have been an affair. They would be in open marriages or unmarried. Rather then face their own judgement and use it to make changes and better themselves some fall Into the easy out of blaming and excuses. And no one can change that except them. And that is why I think the saying once a cheater always a cheater is true in a sense-once they adopt the cheater mindset of avoiding responsibility they will stay that way and yes cheat again until or unless they choose to change themselves and have the personal integrity to no longer allow that mindset of avoiding responsibility or lowering their own standards to meet their mistakes.

I see it this way a healthy person makes plenty of mistakes but they don't lower their standards to make the mistakes excusable. They hold themselves to constantly reaching those standards. So when I said parts of me wanted a revenge affair, I did. And my husband surely didn't deserve my loyalty at that point. But I did. And I refused to be disloyal to my own values and core parts of me. Marriage has ups and downs and if your loyalty or fidelity is ever linked to the standards you hold your spouse to-you'll struggle to stay faithful. It's why I say comparisons are pointless. It's not about the BS vs the AP. It's about the WS and what they we're lacking. Our spouses will always be Imperfect or displeasing at times and by that everyone always would have an excuse to cheat. Your loyalty & faithfulness needs to be linked to who you are and your own standards.

And if your spouses loyalty isn't that way you can't control that. Nothing you could do would prevent them Cheating. Not being thinner, younger, nicer, sexier, richer etc. It's them. Inside them and only they can chose to hold themselves to standards. And if they don't and have no desire to then do really want someone like that as a life partner? No one has to rush divorce. You can wait and see if they choose to be a better person for themselves but while your waiting tend your own gardens and make your life what you want it to be and be the best person you can be for YOU because you can't make them have standards for themselves.

If your signing them up for therapy, or buying them books or begging and pleading for rebuilding trust and accountability-your trying to make them have standards. And it doesn't work. Trust me. Been there done that. Wish I hadn't wasted the time. And if you remove yourself enough from the fear of loss you'll probably realize you don't WANT anyone you have to make have standards.

This is the good thing about this forum right here.

The other day, I originally felt attacked. To be honest, if it were in person, in my face, I woukd not have been able to deal with it.

Instead, I could cool off, and see what was trying to be said.

And, most were right. I was making excuses. I was trying to show my mindset, with the idea of helping others to see, but in the end, it was one big excuse.

The good thing came from it though. That is, I got the time to take a hard look. To actually own up to what I had done. In the end, I wrote up the piece about the perspective of my wife, because then I truly understood.

You know the other day I got into a dispute with my wife. We reverted back to a passive aggressive fight. It was over who was going to prepare my son lunch. Stupid, I know. But, it wasn't what the fight was about.

I learned through all of this experience to get us out of the situation. So, I took my wife for coffee.

We talked. She asked me why I wouldn't say (at first) that I wouldn't cheat. Why it wasn't automatically implied. It was because then, I couldn't. I wasn't in a place to say that unequivocally.

I will not lie to my wife anymore. I can honestly say I won't now. That's because I know for a fact I won't, because I know and am figuring out who I am and my boundaries so I can act with integrity.

But, then she laid it out for me. She actually said that she was afraid if she messed up that I would be gone again.

I told her this: It's not her fault that I made a stupid decision. Period. Not anything she did lead me to do what I did.

Perhaps things were not great in our marriage, perhaps we both gained weight, or there was passive aggressive behaviour on both our parts. Perhaps she did all sorts of things... And so did I.

But I made the choice to not respond with integrity from the first inappropriate text.

There is no fault of my wife for my decision. It's mine, and mine alone. She cannot feel responsible for my actions because I ultimately made the stupid choice.

That means that there is no blame. She is not at fault for the affair, I am. She may have contributed to having me come to door #1, but I opened it, and stepped through it.

Finally seeing that and admitting is one of the most freeing things ever. I made a huge mistake and I can't take my actions back.

But admitting the mistake means that I have identified the problem, and now can take steps to fix it. Identify with your past, accept that it happened, learn from it, crush the lesson, and move on.

That's what growing up looks like I guess...
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