Shayla
My husband and I were married in 2003. We also had our first child that year. We had a really good relationship and were very supportive of each other, my husband decided to get a college education when our daughter was a about 6 months old. I did everything I could to support him and make life easier for him and things were great for the first 3 years of our marriage. Our second child was born right as he was finished school. We were looking forward to a happy bright future. Then 4 days after our son was born my husband's mother passed away. When his mom passed, his two youngest sisters came to live with us. It was a hard time for all of us, so much change and pain, but I thought we were doing ok. Then about six months later I caught my husband sexting. We had a big fight then he apologized and texted her that "his wife knows and the texting had to stop". We talked a little and both agreed we hadn't been spending enough time together and promised to make each other a priority. The sexting and how it made me feel ended up getting sweep under the rug and we moved on. I wasn't as hard on him as I would have liked to have been because I knew everything he had been through lately.The following year we bought our first house.Things seemed good. We were happy for awhile.

In 2010 he started acting really distant and short tempered. I would ask him what was wrong and he would tell me nothing. In March of that year he got up that morning before I woke up and left me a note saying he was going to be at a friends house for a bit. ( a male friend)  I texted him later and he said he was helping a friend with somethings and it was taking longer than expected. We only had one vehicle so I was stuck home all day with the kids so finally about 8 that night I was fed up and called him and told him to bring the car home and if he wanted to leave again whoever he was with could pick him up. He came home pissed off we had a horrible fight with many hateful things said. Mostly from him. I broke down and I guess he felt guilty so he decided to stay home. Things were really tense for the next 7 months. I took all the hateful things he said to heart and tried to fix everything he said was "wrong" with me, but things just kept getting worse. In October of that year I found out my husband was having an affair. I confronted him and he admitted it. It had been going on for almost 2 years but the first 6 months or so they were "just" friends. This time I didn't get angry I was heartbroken. He promised to stop seeing her but he thought he might love her but he loved me more. It took him a couple of weeks to end it, but he did and he started trying to help me heal. We never went to counseling but did do some online courses. There was a lot of ups and downs and at times I felt like he wasn't trying hard enough. I felt like I had to do the majority of the work to fix our relationship. He would do whatever I asked him to do, but I had to find the books to read and the tool to use. Eventually I forgave him and quit pushing him to do the things I thought he should do and just accepted he was loving me the best way he knew how. One thing I really thought he needed to figure out was why he had the affair, but I kept being told by other people that it didn't really matter so I let that go too.  After about two years we were almost back to normal and we were both happy. I quit feeling the need to check up on him and started to trust him again. 

We have been doing really well for the last couple of years. He has been at his current job for almost 4 years and loves it. He is on day shift and it's been great for our family. Then this month I got a new phone so I was making some changes to our plan and noticed he had a lot more text this month than I did and it was only 9 days into the billing cycle. So I looked at the history and saw they were all to the same number. I tried calling the number but got the generic voice mail message. Since I didn't know whose number it was I checked his phone when he came home from work. There were no text to that number in his phone and the number wasn't saved. I didn't say anything to him for a couple of days but finally I asked him who the number belonged to and he told me a women from work. I asked him if there was anything going on and he said yes, they had been flirting and texting and had sex twice. He said he didn't care about her and it was just sex. 

He took the next day off work and we talked a lot. He loves me and wants to fix this. He is sorry and said he should have come to me the first time he talked to her. That was what he had said he would do if he was ever tempted again, but he didn't know how to tell me and he thought it would be ok. He also told me there was another woman he is attracted to but he has seen how flirty she is so he stays away from her and nothing has ever happened. He says he doesn't know why he didn't do the same with this woman. He hasn't tried any blame sifting this time and says its 100% on him and that I have been great and the best thing that ever happened to him. He loves me and doesn't want to lose me but he doesn't know why he does this. He promised to do whatever he needs to do to fix it. I've told him he has to do the work this time. I can't do it for him and that I think we should see a counselor. The last 2 weeks at work have been really hectic with them being short handed so I haven't seen much follow through. I did call a few counselors even though I said he had to and haven't had much luck.

I'm so hurt and don't really know what to do this time. I love my husband and kids and our want to keep our family together but I don't know what to do this time. 




Quote 1 0
Anna26
Oh...bless you...I can empathise with so much of what you've said. It's not easy and only you can decide what you need right now, but I think the key thing for you to remember is that there is no rush.  There are other people on this forum who will probably give you some better advice than I can right now and that's mainly because they have experienced different things or are at a different stage in the process.  But try to remember that he made the choice to do this and the actual affair is not your fault. 

First time round for me, I was just like you now, I didn't really know what to do. I didn't realise that it was best talked through and that there was a process to be worked through, I didn't know where to go for help.  We muddled through it somehow, but it kind of got smothered over and everything went 'back to normal' if there can ever be a normal.  I found it hard though because my WS had a huge problem letting his emotions out and he still can't do it.  

The second time around, I was living through the nightmare. There were a few red flags which I think I became aware of quicker because of the previous affair but didn't want to believe, but like you found, the real evidence was glaringly obvious in the list of texts to the same number.
And until I had firm proof I couldn't tackle him about it.
We had the confrontation and the admission later and even though it was all out in the open at home, I sensed it was still ongoing ,and couldn't tolerate him living at home and still seeing his AP.  So I asked him to move out, and we have been separated about 4 months now.
But, he turns up every now and then, and we get on okay, but are just not making much progress otherwise as he is still living in the affair dream and can't forget about her.  So the best thing I can do right now is focus on me and my children, and show him I can be okay on my own.

I do think though that if you can't find a counsellor,talking to a trusted friend if you have another one would be a great idea, but you need someone who, like you say, won't take sides or be judgemental afterwards.
This is the route I chose for myself, I knew my WS wouldn't entertain the idea of talking to anyone, let alone a counsellor, but I did need something, I needed to talk to clear my head.  But I did resist the temptation to spill the beans to all and sundry, like you say, sometimes things have a habit of coming back to bite you!

Hope this helps a little, remember you have us to talk to now, you are not alone...

Quote 0 0
Kalmarjan
Shayla wrote:
My husband and I were married in 2003. We also had our first child that year. We had a really good relationship and were very supportive of each other, my husband decided to get a college education when our daughter was a about 6 months old. I did everything I could to support him and make life easier for him and things were great for the first 3 years of our marriage. Our second child was born right as he was finished school. We were looking forward to a happy bright future. Then 4 days after our son was born my husband's mother passed away. When his mom passed, his two youngest sisters came to live with us. It was a hard time for all of us, so much change and pain, but I thought we were doing ok. Then about six months later I caught my husband sexting. We had a big fight then he apologized and texted her that "his wife knows and the texting had to stop". We talked a little and both agreed we hadn't been spending enough time together and promised to make each other a priority. The sexting and how it made me feel ended up getting sweep under the rug and we moved on. I wasn't as hard on him as I would have liked to have been because I knew everything he had been through lately.The following year we bought our first house.Things seemed good. We were happy for awhile.

In 2010 he started acting really distant and short tempered. I would ask him what was wrong and he would tell me nothing. In March of that year he got up that morning before I woke up and left me a note saying he was going to be at a friends house for a bit. ( a male friend)  I texted him later and he said he was helping a friend with somethings and it was taking longer than expected. We only had one vehicle so I was stuck home all day with the kids so finally about 8 that night I was fed up and called him and told him to bring the car home and if he wanted to leave again whoever he was with could pick him up. He came home pissed off we had a horrible fight with many hateful things said. Mostly from him. I broke down and I guess he felt guilty so he decided to stay home. Things were really tense for the next 7 months. I took all the hateful things he said to heart and tried to fix everything he said was "wrong" with me, but things just kept getting worse. In October of that year I found out my husband was having an affair. I confronted him and he admitted it. It had been going on for almost 2 years but the first 6 months or so they were "just" friends. This time I didn't get angry I was heartbroken. He promised to stop seeing her but he thought he might love her but he loved me more. It took him a couple of weeks to end it, but he did and he started trying to help me heal. We never went to counseling but did do some online courses. There was a lot of ups and downs and at times I felt like he wasn't trying hard enough. I felt like I had to do the majority of the work to fix our relationship. He would do whatever I asked him to do, but I had to find the books to read and the tool to use. Eventually I forgave him and quit pushing him to do the things I thought he should do and just accepted he was loving me the best way he knew how. One thing I really thought he needed to figure out was why he had the affair, but I kept being told by other people that it didn't really matter so I let that go too.  After about two years we were almost back to normal and we were both happy. I quit feeling the need to check up on him and started to trust him again. 

We have been doing really well for the last couple of years. He has been at his current job for almost 4 years and loves it. He is on day shift and it's been great for our family. Then this month I got a new phone so I was making some changes to our plan and noticed he had a lot more text this month than I did and it was only 9 days into the billing cycle. So I looked at the history and saw they were all to the same number. I tried calling the number but got the generic voice mail message. Since I didn't know whose number it was I checked his phone when he came home from work. There were no text to that number in his phone and the number wasn't saved. I didn't say anything to him for a couple of days but finally I asked him who the number belonged to and he told me a women from work. I asked him if there was anything going on and he said yes, they had been flirting and texting and had sex twice. He said he didn't care about her and it was just sex. 

He took the next day off work and we talked a lot. He loves me and wants to fix this. He is sorry and said he should have come to me the first time he talked to her. That was what he had said he would do if he was ever tempted again, but he didn't know how to tell me and he thought it would be ok. He also told me there was another woman he is attracted to but he has seen how flirty she is so he stays away from her and nothing has ever happened. He says he doesn't know why he didn't do the same with this woman. He hasn't tried any blame sifting this time and says its 100% on him and that I have been great and the best thing that ever happened to him. He loves me and doesn't want to lose me but he doesn't know why he does this. He promised to do whatever he needs to do to fix it. I've told him he has to do the work this time. I can't do it for him and that I think we should see a counselor. The last 2 weeks at work have been really hectic with them being short handed so I haven't seen much follow through. I did call a few counselors even though I said he had to and haven't had much luck.

I'm so hurt and don't really know what to do this time. I love my husband and kids and our want to keep our family together but I don't know what to do this time. 






I don't know your situation. I do know how a WS covers their tracks though. I'm gonna layout an opinion, and I'm sure it won't be popular, but it will be logical.

Your husband has shown no remorse. He is saying the words that you want to hear, but his actions are NOT backing them up.

Straight up? The first red flag... The sexting. He said "The wife knows therefore we have to stop." NOT "I love my wife and what we are doing is wrong."

Big huge difference.

Second... He took a while to leave his second partner, and was ambivalent about it. You needed to lead him by the nose to get the work done, find the books, and you all didn't even get to marriage counselling.

Huge red flag.

He never looked at why he did it. He never did the work. People told you it didn't matter, but deep down you knew it did.

Then, you find out that things aren't matching up with the texts and the numbers on this phone from work. This means that he has deleted all texts and call logs. Yes, it can be done simply.

Which means he has been hiding it from you, and only when he got caught, gee shucks... I would have told you but you know... (I didn't think I would get caught.)

Amazingly, it happened after you let up on him, and when he was in a position to gain your trust.

He covers his tracks, lies by omission, doesn't do the necessary work except what you tell him to do, and hasn't even looked to see what he is doing to find himself in the situation again and again. There are a few situations where he hasn't even broken contact with the affair partner.

Let me show you what my work and remorse looks like:

I gave up the AP, blocked her and ceased contact with her
When she contacted me again the last time, I literally told her that I LOVE MY WIFE AND I WANT TO MAKE IT WORK WITH HER. Don't contact me again.
I tall about everything to my wife (too much)
I seek to understand how I came to the point where I had the affair. I was not prompted, I am doing this myself so I NEVER cheat on my wife again. If I get in the position where I don't think I can be with her, then I will do the right thing next time.
I insisted on marriage counselling. I go.
I do as much work to fix as my wife does 100%/100% (in fact in light of people calling me out today on the forums I even had a heart to heart with her to check in and see if the people are right... Turns out they are partially.)
I seek to understand. I feel the pain I inflicted on my wife and hold high shame.
I also try to tell my story a bit because it not only helps me to share because someone may get some insight from it, but I can get a perspective that my wife may not be able to convey.

Look, I'm not saying I'm perfect, but actions speak volumes here.

Your WS isn't doing anything, just going through the motions, in essence telling you what you need to hear. I mean, hey... It's too busy at work right now.. You see. Plus.. This way I do t have to do anything.

Bull.

If it's important to him, screw it. Change jobs then. If I want to really work on something NOTHING will stop me from it. I will do the damn work, and get ER done.

I can't link from my phone very well, but look for the post about boundaries. You need to read that and lay down the law. You are too good to be strung along, and the signs are there..

Even just given the latest/current situation. From the perspective of someone who was the wayward spouse.... The rule is, if you have to delete a text, or the log of the text or call, well... You're already there... You're cheating.
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Shayla
Kalmarjan, I hear what you are saying and that is my fear.  With the first affair ( sexting), it's hard for me to call it an affair, because we didn't treat it that way. I wasn't happy with the way he ended it but he did end it. 

In 2010 with the LTA, I should clarify that it took him 2 weeks to officially end it, but in those two weeks he did not see or talk to her. That was his idea of ending it. After reading somethings I felt it was important that he let her know we were working on us and he would no longer be contacting her. They had taken a few breaks during there "relationship", so I didn't want her to think it was another break. We did have a lot of long conversations during the recovery and he was very open with me. My husband doesn't show emotion much at all, so when he does it is real. He can't fake that. 

He says he wants to change and I think he really does. He also says he doesn't know howto fix himself, which I also believe. He says he knows he's good at compartmentalizing. Home is one life and work is another. I asked him which one was really him and he said both are to a degree and he feels more himself at home but there are parts at work that are real too. Anyway he said he doesn't know how to merge the two but he knows he needs to. I hear about his co-workers all the time, I feel like I know them, he has pointed them out to me, when I've been there a few times. But hadn't really met. He thinks that having me around more at work would help him, but after finding out about his affair that will be hard. 3 days after D-day we did go together to his supervisor's wedding (really hard to do, but we had already said we were going) and I did meet several of his co-workers, so maybe that is a start. 
Quote 0 0
Kalmarjan
Shayla wrote:
Kalmarjan, I hear what you are saying and that is my fear.  With the first affair ( sexting), it's hard for me to call it an affair, because we didn't treat it that way. I wasn't happy with the way he ended it but he did end it. 

In 2010 with the LTA, I should clarify that it took him 2 weeks to officially end it, but in those two weeks he did not see or talk to her. That was his idea of ending it. After reading somethings I felt it was important that he let her know we were working on us and he would no longer be contacting her. They had taken a few breaks during there "relationship", so I didn't want her to think it was another break. We did have a lot of long conversations during the recovery and he was very open with me. My husband doesn't show emotion much at all, so when he does it is real. He can't fake that. 

He says he wants to change and I think he really does. He also says he doesn't know howto fix himself, which I also believe. He says he knows he's good at compartmentalizing. Home is one life and work is another. I asked him which one was really him and he said both are to a degree and he feels more himself at home but there are parts at work that are real too. Anyway he said he doesn't know how to merge the two but he knows he needs to. I hear about his co-workers all the time, I feel like I know them, he has pointed them out to me, when I've been there a few times. But hadn't really met. He thinks that having me around more at work would help him, but after finding out about his affair that will be hard. 3 days after D-day we did go together to his supervisor's wedding (really hard to do, but we had already said we were going) and I did meet several of his co-workers, so maybe that is a start. 


Let me start with the Sexting. Is it an affair? That's easy to answer. Did you know about it? Did he hide it from you? Did you think it was cool he was doing it? How do you feel if he continued doing it? Woukd he do it if you were standing beside you?

If you answered no to any of those above... Well. It's an affair. It's not physical but it's still a violation of your marriage vows.

I agree that it's easy to compartmentalize. He says he doesn't know which he is? I would say he is not living authentically then.

The base question here is not about him. It's about you. You have to understand that you hold the keys to this situation, because this is your life.

The other thing to think on here is the kids. I'm not sure their ages, but everything the two of you do will have a profound impact on their adult lives and how they approach and manage their relationships.

In the end, it's no difference what your husband does, it's all about what you do, and what your boundaries are. What's acceptable to you?

Take away your marriage, and your children. Pretend that you are on a second date with this guy. Would you let him do this to you?

I would guess no.

So, is this current behaviour acceptable to you? How about the ambivalence? How about the fact that your man can sit on the fence, mess around and gee.. As long as you know about things it will help him be good..

I've cheated. I put my wife through hell. I shattered everything that she held up as safe in her life. I destroyed her trust in me, and I was a terrible example to my child. I sure as hell am NOT ambivalent on change. I am doing all that I can to regain my family's trust.

I'm the same guy at home as I am at work, the only difference is who is looking. In the end, what's the difference? I act as if my wife was there now. I act with integrity.

It sounds still like your man isn't accepting any responsibility for his actions. Come on, you have to get to know His Co workers so it will help him? How about his remorse and self searching to guide his broken moral compass to make the right decision?

Im not coming at you like a betrayed spouse. I'm telling you the perspective of someone who cheated on his wife doing some of the things you are saying your man is doing.

What do you think here? I know you are afraid of wrecking your family, but I can't help but notice you are letting him decide for you, giving him all the power. He can't tell what's right or wrong? He can't tell the difference between home and work?

Bull.

He is stringing you along. If not, he is even worse. Tell your man to buck up, pull up his big boy boots and act like a man with integrity. Do it FOR YOU and YOUR FAMILY, because make no mistake, DOING NOTHING AND LETTING HIM CALL THE SHOTS WILL DESTROY YOUR FAMILY QUICKER.

Quote 0 0
TimT
Shayla wrote:
Kalmarjan, I hear what you are saying and that is my fear.  With the first affair ( sexting), it's hard for me to call it an affair, because we didn't treat it that way. I wasn't happy with the way he ended it but he did end it.

Some people prefer to use the word "affair" to describe something that becomes an ongoing relationship, usually with some emotional connection involved. I, like Kalmarjan, tend to use a broader definition for the word, but even if you don't call it an affair it IS a form of infidelity, which breaks trust and damages intimacy. The destruction is often the same, so no matter what you call it, the work of recovery is not going to be much different. 

I'm glad you found your way here. I hope you'll be encouraged in your healing!
Quote 0 0
Kalmarjan
TimT wrote:
Shayla wrote:
Kalmarjan, I hear what you are saying and that is my fear.  With the first affair ( sexting), it's hard for me to call it an affair, because we didn't treat it that way. I wasn't happy with the way he ended it but he did end it.

Some people prefer to use the word "affair" to describe something that becomes an ongoing relationship, usually with some emotional connection involved. I, like Kalmarjan, tend to use a broader definition for the word, but even if you don't call it an affair it IS a form of infidelity, which breaks trust and damages intimacy. The destruction is often the same, so no matter what you call it, the work of recovery is not going to be much different. 

I'm glad you found your way here. I hope you'll be encouraged in your healing!


To be honest, my affair started this way. I got texts from the AP that were naked pictures. I hid them from my wife. I didn't say "hey, I'm married, are you nuts?"

Right then is when my affair actually began. It took a long time of soul searching (and ceasing to shift blame) to understand that. I originally said hey, if that girl hadn't sent me naked pictures of herself...

Today I understand that's not true. But it took me a lot (and believe you me, being roasted on the forums here helped too!) to realize it. It's about taking responsibility for my part.


Quote 1 0
Shayla
I completely get the sexting was an affair and was cheating, I knew it then and I know it even more so now. The point was we didn't treat it that way. It was just something stupid he did, that upset me, we talked a little rugswept a lot and then moved on. I'm sure the way we handled it made it much easier for him to have the second affair. That time we both addressed the issue for what it was and I thought made a lot of progress. 

I'm really on the fence about what to do. Dday wasn't quite 3 weeks ago. (6/10), so I guess that is normal. I really want him to work on himself and us being able to stay married. I want it for many reasons. One of them is for our kids ( 9 and 12). The oldest, our daughter was talking to me about 2 months ago about her cousin, that has divorced parents and how she has to always go back and forth. She told me she was glad that we are all together and that she doesn't have to go back and forth. I really don't want to put them through that. Every day I hope I will see him do some work, without me asking him to, then when he doesn't I feel hurt, disappointed and like nothing will ever change. I can't do this forever.
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Kalmarjan
Shayla wrote:
I completely get the sexting was an affair and was cheating, I knew it then and I know it even more so now. The point was we didn't treat it that way. It was just something stupid he did, that upset me, we talked a little rugswept a lot and then moved on. I'm sure the way we handled it made it much easier for him to have the second affair. That time we both addressed the issue for what it was and I thought made a lot of progress. 

I'm really on the fence about what to do. Dday wasn't quite 3 weeks ago. (6/10), so I guess that is normal. I really want him to work on himself and us being able to stay married. I want it for many reasons. One of them is for our kids ( 9 and 12). The oldest, our daughter was talking to me about 2 months ago about her cousin, that has divorced parents and how she has to always go back and forth. She told me she was glad that we are all together and that she doesn't have to go back and forth. I really don't want to put them through that. Every day I hope I will see him do some work, without me asking him to, then when he doesn't I feel hurt, disappointed and like nothing will ever change. I can't do this forever.


Aww I hear ya there. You are in a tough situation, and worse you didn't put yourself there.

My actions were stupid and thank God my kid was only 6 turning 7 at the time. He was too young to understand what was going on, but he knew something was going on, and he internalized it.

One thing to consider. You are equating what you child said to you in your terms, and what it means to you.

From what you said your daughter said she was happy to not have gone through all the divorce and the back and forth. She is saying that under the pretext that she is happy that there are no problems in her family situation so she won't have to worry about that.

Unfortunately that may not be true.

Right now there is something major going on, and it's early for all of you. I read somewhere it's like the stages of grief.

Your kids are not going to understand, and by rights, they need to be left out of it. Your daughter isn't telling you what she did with all the information.

Now, I was a child that saw two divorces, and one ended in suicide. Let me tell you a few things from an adult perspective having gone through that.

My mom and step dad divorced when I was 8. Of course, if I had a chance as a kid to keep the together of course I would have. But, as an adult, I know that my stepdad was a cheater and an abuser. It was right for my mom to leave because it meant that she could do what in the end was right for us children.

The second divorce ended in a very bad way. My mother cheated and it was with his best friend. All around it was a bad situation. My mother was very unhappy and there was fighting all around leading up to it.

In both cases, as children my sister and I would of course liked our mother to remain in the relationship because to us, even though both situations were unhealthy to us, we felt "secure" because we didn't know different. We didn't know what was going on. How could we? We were children whose job was supposed to be playing, going to school, and being kids.

As an adult, I am glad my mom got out because otherwise we woukd have grown up in an unhealthy environment.

I can also tell you of friends I have whose parents stayed together through continued infidelity. Let me tell you, all of them as adults are conflicted about it. My best friend became a serial cheater.

Plus, irony at its best? Because of all this infidelity I saw as a child/teenager I always said that my marriage woukd be perfect and I would NEVER cheat...

Anyway, I'm trying to give you a possibility of thinking outside of what your children are saying. They are children, and they are NOT responsible for your feelings or decisions. You are. You need to take care of your needs and self and do the best the situation warrants, and believe it or not, without their input. They are just too young to understand what is going on.
Quote 0 0
Shayla
Got the call back I've been expecting from a counselor, we have our first appointment next week. Hopefully if he is being honest and really does want to change but doesn't know where to start, this will help. The counselor said he doesn't believe in quick fixes and forgiving to quickly and easily can be a bad thing. He said he doesn't want to drag out our sessions but not to expect a quick fix. Sounds great to me, but probably not what my husband is going to want to hear.
Quote 0 0
surviving
Kalmarjan - When I read your comments a few days ago, I was upset with you and your opinions.  Now that you have explained yourself and you are writing some really good comments to help the new people, I just want to say that I am proud of you.  You are growing and realizing what you did to yourself, your wife and your family.  Continue to grow!  You are helping so many people.  I just wanted to encourage you to keep it up.
Quote 0 0
Kalmarjan
surviving wrote:
Kalmarjan - When I read your comments a few days ago, I was upset with you and your opinions.  Now that you have explained yourself and you are writing some really good comments to help the new people, I just want to say that I am proud of you.  You are growing and realizing what you did to yourself, your wife and your family.  Continue to grow!  You are helping so many people.  I just wanted to encourage you to keep it up.


Honestly I was called out for not taking responsibility for my actions. And, people were right.
Also, figuring out that it wasn't the AP fault, but mine. I ultimately made the choice.

Thank you for the kind words. It's better than I deserve, for sure.
Quote 0 0
Intuition77
Kalmarjan wrote:
Shayla wrote:
My husband and I were married in 2003. We also had our first child that year. We had a really good relationship and were very supportive of each other, my husband decided to get a college education when our daughter was a about 6 months old. I did everything I could to support him and make life easier for him and things were great for the first 3 years of our marriage. Our second child was born right as he was finished school. We were looking forward to a happy bright future. Then 4 days after our son was born my husband's mother passed away. When his mom passed, his two youngest sisters came to live with us. It was a hard time for all of us, so much change and pain, but I thought we were doing ok. Then about six months later I caught my husband sexting. We had a big fight then he apologized and texted her that "his wife knows and the texting had to stop". We talked a little and both agreed we hadn't been spending enough time together and promised to make each other a priority. The sexting and how it made me feel ended up getting sweep under the rug and we moved on. I wasn't as hard on him as I would have liked to have been because I knew everything he had been through lately.The following year we bought our first house.Things seemed good. We were happy for awhile.

In 2010 he started acting really distant and short tempered. I would ask him what was wrong and he would tell me nothing. In March of that year he got up that morning before I woke up and left me a note saying he was going to be at a friends house for a bit. ( a male friend)  I texted him later and he said he was helping a friend with somethings and it was taking longer than expected. We only had one vehicle so I was stuck home all day with the kids so finally about 8 that night I was fed up and called him and told him to bring the car home and if he wanted to leave again whoever he was with could pick him up. He came home pissed off we had a horrible fight with many hateful things said. Mostly from him. I broke down and I guess he felt guilty so he decided to stay home. Things were really tense for the next 7 months. I took all the hateful things he said to heart and tried to fix everything he said was "wrong" with me, but things just kept getting worse. In October of that year I found out my husband was having an affair. I confronted him and he admitted it. It had been going on for almost 2 years but the first 6 months or so they were "just" friends. This time I didn't get angry I was heartbroken. He promised to stop seeing her but he thought he might love her but he loved me more. It took him a couple of weeks to end it, but he did and he started trying to help me heal. We never went to counseling but did do some online courses. There was a lot of ups and downs and at times I felt like he wasn't trying hard enough. I felt like I had to do the majority of the work to fix our relationship. He would do whatever I asked him to do, but I had to find the books to read and the tool to use. Eventually I forgave him and quit pushing him to do the things I thought he should do and just accepted he was loving me the best way he knew how. One thing I really thought he needed to figure out was why he had the affair, but I kept being told by other people that it didn't really matter so I let that go too.  After about two years we were almost back to normal and we were both happy. I quit feeling the need to check up on him and started to trust him again. 

We have been doing really well for the last couple of years. He has been at his current job for almost 4 years and loves it. He is on day shift and it's been great for our family. Then this month I got a new phone so I was making some changes to our plan and noticed he had a lot more text this month than I did and it was only 9 days into the billing cycle. So I looked at the history and saw they were all to the same number. I tried calling the number but got the generic voice mail message. Since I didn't know whose number it was I checked his phone when he came home from work. There were no text to that number in his phone and the number wasn't saved. I didn't say anything to him for a couple of days but finally I asked him who the number belonged to and he told me a women from work. I asked him if there was anything going on and he said yes, they had been flirting and texting and had sex twice. He said he didn't care about her and it was just sex. 

He took the next day off work and we talked a lot. He loves me and wants to fix this. He is sorry and said he should have come to me the first time he talked to her. That was what he had said he would do if he was ever tempted again, but he didn't know how to tell me and he thought it would be ok. He also told me there was another woman he is attracted to but he has seen how flirty she is so he stays away from her and nothing has ever happened. He says he doesn't know why he didn't do the same with this woman. He hasn't tried any blame sifting this time and says its 100% on him and that I have been great and the best thing that ever happened to him. He loves me and doesn't want to lose me but he doesn't know why he does this. He promised to do whatever he needs to do to fix it. I've told him he has to do the work this time. I can't do it for him and that I think we should see a counselor. The last 2 weeks at work have been really hectic with them being short handed so I haven't seen much follow through. I did call a few counselors even though I said he had to and haven't had much luck.

I'm so hurt and don't really know what to do this time. I love my husband and kids and our want to keep our family together but I don't know what to do this time. 






I don't know your situation. I do know how a WS covers their tracks though. I'm gonna layout an opinion, and I'm sure it won't be popular, but it will be logical.

Your husband has shown no remorse. He is saying the words that you want to hear, but his actions are NOT backing them up.

Straight up? The first red flag... The sexting. He said "The wife knows therefore we have to stop." NOT "I love my wife and what we are doing is wrong."

Big huge difference.

Second... He took a while to leave his second partner, and was ambivalent about it. You needed to lead him by the nose to get the work done, find the books, and you all didn't even get to marriage counselling.

Huge red flag.

He never looked at why he did it. He never did the work. People told you it didn't matter, but deep down you knew it did.

Then, you find out that things aren't matching up with the texts and the numbers on this phone from work. This means that he has deleted all texts and call logs. Yes, it can be done simply.

Which means he has been hiding it from you, and only when he got caught, gee shucks... I would have told you but you know... (I didn't think I would get caught.)

Amazingly, it happened after you let up on him, and when he was in a position to gain your trust.

He covers his tracks, lies by omission, doesn't do the necessary work except what you tell him to do, and hasn't even looked to see what he is doing to find himself in the situation again and again. There are a few situations where he hasn't even broken contact with the affair partner.

Let me show you what my work and remorse looks like:

I gave up the AP, blocked her and ceased contact with her
When she contacted me again the last time, I literally told her that I LOVE MY WIFE AND I WANT TO MAKE IT WORK WITH HER. Don't contact me again.
I tall about everything to my wife (too much)
I seek to understand how I came to the point where I had the affair. I was not prompted, I am doing this myself so I NEVER cheat on my wife again. If I get in the position where I don't think I can be with her, then I will do the right thing next time.
I insisted on marriage counselling. I go.
I do as much work to fix as my wife does 100%/100% (in fact in light of people calling me out today on the forums I even had a heart to heart with her to check in and see if the people are right... Turns out they are partially.)
I seek to understand. I feel the pain I inflicted on my wife and hold high shame.
I also try to tell my story a bit because it not only helps me to share because someone may get some insight from it, but I can get a perspective that my wife may not be able to convey.

Look, I'm not saying I'm perfect, but actions speak volumes here.

Your WS isn't doing anything, just going through the motions, in essence telling you what you need to hear. I mean, hey... It's too busy at work right now.. You see. Plus.. This way I do t have to do anything.

Bull.

If it's important to him, screw it. Change jobs then. If I want to really work on something NOTHING will stop me from it. I will do the damn work, and get ER done.

I can't link from my phone very well, but look for the post about boundaries. You need to read that and lay down the law. You are too good to be strung along, and the signs are there..

Even just given the latest/current situation. From the perspective of someone who was the wayward spouse.... The rule is, if you have to delete a text, or the log of the text or call, well... You're already there... You're cheating.



Have to agree with many of these points. Particularly my husband would also "say" he was sorry but his actions showed no real remorse or personal responsibility. He also ended it because my wife knows and she thinks it's wrong. He attempted to end his current affair once with "my wife feels this is inappropriate. "That's when I saw he doesn't want any personal responsibility. Normal people would say as kal said this is wrong for ME I love my spouse etc. And I know he would easily cheat again (besides the fact he did) but because the standards aren't there for his own behavior, there's always someone else to blame-it was nothing your just being paranoid etc. Someone who truly sees their errors and changes takes responsibility.

Lately I have heard that sing "honey I'm
Good" & at first it bugged me, as if not cheating was so hard to avoid until I realized what the song is really about. That people may get tempted but they don't "not cheat" because they'll get caught or there's witnesses etc but because they choose not to. They choose to admit they may be tempted and rather then pretend it doesn't exist they face it head on. With personal responsibility. It's kinda became my new anthem for the idea that one day I'll find a partner who believes in being true just like I do. Not because it's easy, not because someone's watching, just because it's their standard for themselves. The way my husband sees it and sorry sounds like yours too currently, is like cheating is just this easy mistake they make and oops I'm still a nice guy. No desire to dig deeper and solve anything. I saw in my spouse when he chose to allow the ap in
He knew it was cheating, even just as friends talking and that loss of his own beliefs to cross that line to allow himself he changed Ll his morals and beliefs and standards as if allowing it in the beginning and the excuses he made
And blaming everyone else gave him no power over everything. Instead of changing back he's a only gotten worse, he takes no responsibility for anything. I truly don't think he was always that way. But once he let it in and didn't want to own his choices Nd problems that led him
There they just take over. It's sick. Rather then face his own actions he chose to live his entire life that way now-no responsibility.
So if he's not showing massive remorse and owning his actions, then be careful. listen to what kal said there's a difference between I don't text or call other women because I don't care to and I want my wife to trust me & I CANT call or text other women because my wife won't ALLOW me. I think this is easy to pick out around other men too. Other immature men will call a man whipped or on a leash etc when he puts his wife's feelings and marriage priority-a mature man
Will not care what they say and live to his own standards an immature man will
Cave to peer pressure to try to
Impress others. Also happened to my husband. His newest "friends" during the affair are married losers who constantly disrespect women and operate under what my wife don't know won't hurt her. In fact early on when I thought we we're reconciling he allowed me access to his phone (though I later found he was still deleting things) and these few men knowing the affair and fall
Out just happened would send my husband
All these jokes about wives being b*tches and cheating and porn
Links etc. and my husbands response was just "my wife can see these". Not "I don't want these". That showed me
He changed who he was too. These behaviors and beliefs we're acceptable to him now and I was just the wife that had a problem with everything. He didn't want the same respectful marriage he did years ago. Years ago I believed my husband wouldn't even be friends with men like that.
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Kalmarjan
Intuition77 wrote:

Have to agree with many of these points. Particularly my husband would also "say" he was sorry but his actions showed no real remorse or personal responsibility. He also ended it because my wife knows and she thinks it's wrong. He attempted to end his current affair once with "my wife feels this is inappropriate. "That's when I saw he doesn't want any personal responsibility. Normal people would say as kal said this is wrong for ME I love my spouse etc. And I know he would easily cheat again (besides the fact he did) but because the standards aren't there for his own behavior, there's always someone else to blame-it was nothing your just being paranoid etc. Someone who truly sees their errors and changes takes responsibility.

Lately I have heard that sing "honey I'm
Good" & at first it bugged me, as if not cheating was so hard to avoid until I realized what the song is really about. That people may get tempted but they don't "not cheat" because they'll get caught or there's witnesses etc but because they choose not to. They choose to admit they may be tempted and rather then pretend it doesn't exist they face it head on. With personal responsibility. It's kinda became my new anthem for the idea that one day I'll find a partner who believes in being true just like I do. Not because it's easy, not because someone's watching, just because it's their standard for themselves. The way my husband sees it and sorry sounds like yours too currently, is like cheating is just this easy mistake they make and oops I'm still a nice guy. No desire to dig deeper and solve anything. I saw in my spouse when he chose to allow the ap in
He knew it was cheating, even just as friends talking and that loss of his own beliefs to cross that line to allow himself he changed Ll his morals and beliefs and standards as if allowing it in the beginning and the excuses he made
And blaming everyone else gave him no power over everything. Instead of changing back he's a only gotten worse, he takes no responsibility for anything. I truly don't think he was always that way. But once he let it in and didn't want to own his choices Nd problems that led him
There they just take over. It's sick. Rather then face his own actions he chose to live his entire life that way now-no responsibility.
So if he's not showing massive remorse and owning his actions, then be careful. listen to what kal said there's a difference between I don't text or call other women because I don't care to and I want my wife to trust me & I CANT call or text other women because my wife won't ALLOW me. I think this is easy to pick out around other men too. Other immature men will call a man whipped or on a leash etc when he puts his wife's feelings and marriage priority-a mature man
Will not care what they say and live to his own standards an immature man will
Cave to peer pressure to try to
Impress others. Also happened to my husband. His newest "friends" during the affair are married losers who constantly disrespect women and operate under what my wife don't know won't hurt her. In fact early on when I thought we we're reconciling he allowed me access to his phone (though I later found he was still deleting things) and these few men knowing the affair and fall
Out just happened would send my husband
All these jokes about wives being b*tches and cheating and porn
Links etc. and my husbands response was just "my wife can see these". Not "I don't want these". That showed me
He changed who he was too. These behaviors and beliefs we're acceptable to him now and I was just the wife that had a problem with everything. He didn't want the same respectful marriage he did years ago. Years ago I believed my husband wouldn't even be friends with men like that.


BOOM.

This^^

You know what? I remember 11 years ago, I was leaving a resort to move across the country to be with my wife. I was offered an affair. I could have gone to this woman's apartment, no strings attached. No one would have known.

Except I would have.

That's why I didn't.

Not because my wife wouldn't let me, not because I might get caught, but because I knew who I was, and my boundary.

I admit it, I am a fearless flirt. I can't help it. Or, at least before I wasn't really aware that I was crossing a line or playing with fire. Let me tell you, it's different now!

This is why earlier i was saying it's not okay to be all about the BS in recovery. I think it's more important to work on yourself and make sure the words coming out of your mouth are with integrity, not just words to soothe your mate and tell them what you think they want to hear.

I will never cheat on my wife again because now I am aware of myself, and my boundaries. I will live with integrity and conscience. If I feel that it isn't working with my wife and my heart is in another place, then I will do the right thing, instead of avoiding hurting her, I will tell her how I am feeling.

The reason I can say that with such conviction is because I am aware of what pain my actions caused my wife. I will never do that again. Period.
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Intuition77
Kalmarjan wrote:
Intuition77 wrote:

Have to agree with many of these points. Particularly my husband would also "say" he was sorry but his actions showed no real remorse or personal responsibility. He also ended it because my wife knows and she thinks it's wrong. He attempted to end his current affair once with "my wife feels this is inappropriate. "That's when I saw he doesn't want any personal responsibility. Normal people would say as kal said this is wrong for ME I love my spouse etc. And I know he would easily cheat again (besides the fact he did) but because the standards aren't there for his own behavior, there's always someone else to blame-it was nothing your just being paranoid etc. Someone who truly sees their errors and changes takes responsibility.

Lately I have heard that sing "honey I'm
Good" & at first it bugged me, as if not cheating was so hard to avoid until I realized what the song is really about. That people may get tempted but they don't "not cheat" because they'll get caught or there's witnesses etc but because they choose not to. They choose to admit they may be tempted and rather then pretend it doesn't exist they face it head on. With personal responsibility. It's kinda became my new anthem for the idea that one day I'll find a partner who believes in being true just like I do. Not because it's easy, not because someone's watching, just because it's their standard for themselves. The way my husband sees it and sorry sounds like yours too currently, is like cheating is just this easy mistake they make and oops I'm still a nice guy. No desire to dig deeper and solve anything. I saw in my spouse when he chose to allow the ap in
He knew it was cheating, even just as friends talking and that loss of his own beliefs to cross that line to allow himself he changed Ll his morals and beliefs and standards as if allowing it in the beginning and the excuses he made
And blaming everyone else gave him no power over everything. Instead of changing back he's a only gotten worse, he takes no responsibility for anything. I truly don't think he was always that way. But once he let it in and didn't want to own his choices Nd problems that led him
There they just take over. It's sick. Rather then face his own actions he chose to live his entire life that way now-no responsibility.
So if he's not showing massive remorse and owning his actions, then be careful. listen to what kal said there's a difference between I don't text or call other women because I don't care to and I want my wife to trust me & I CANT call or text other women because my wife won't ALLOW me. I think this is easy to pick out around other men too. Other immature men will call a man whipped or on a leash etc when he puts his wife's feelings and marriage priority-a mature man
Will not care what they say and live to his own standards an immature man will
Cave to peer pressure to try to
Impress others. Also happened to my husband. His newest "friends" during the affair are married losers who constantly disrespect women and operate under what my wife don't know won't hurt her. In fact early on when I thought we we're reconciling he allowed me access to his phone (though I later found he was still deleting things) and these few men knowing the affair and fall
Out just happened would send my husband
All these jokes about wives being b*tches and cheating and porn
Links etc. and my husbands response was just "my wife can see these". Not "I don't want these". That showed me
He changed who he was too. These behaviors and beliefs we're acceptable to him now and I was just the wife that had a problem with everything. He didn't want the same respectful marriage he did years ago. Years ago I believed my husband wouldn't even be friends with men like that.


BOOM.

This^^

You know what? I remember 11 years ago, I was leaving a resort to move across the country to be with my wife. I was offered an affair. I could have gone to this woman's apartment, no strings attached. No one would have known.

Except I would have.

That's why I didn't.

Not because my wife wouldn't let me, not because I might get caught, but because I knew who I was, and my boundary.

I admit it, I am a fearless flirt. I can't help it. Or, at least before I wasn't really aware that I was crossing a line or playing with fire. Let me tell you, it's different now!

This is why earlier i was saying it's not okay to be all about the BS in recovery. I think it's more important to work on yourself and make sure the words coming out of your mouth are with integrity, not just words to soothe your mate and tell them what you think they want to hear.

I will never cheat on my wife again because now I am aware of myself, and my boundaries. I will live with integrity and conscience. If I feel that it isn't working with my wife and my heart is in another place, then I will do the right thing, instead of avoiding hurting her, I will tell her how I am feeling.

The reason I can say that with such conviction is because I am aware of what pain my actions caused my wife. I will never do that again. Period.



Which if I can say kal was the point I was trying to make days ago in that other thread though I don't think I was expressing it clearly. That the judgement needs to be ones own. That a WS who truly won't cheat again is one whose done the work on themselves and doesn't want to betray their spouse or their own standards. Those who stay faithful aren't never tempted or better people they just choose to be honest with themselves and keep their own standards. Anyone who is only faithful because they don't want to get caught or their afraid of the consequences will I believe eventually cheat, it's really ones own beliefs. Once someone allows their beliefs to change by excuses justifying blaming they really need to get honest and take the personal responsibility to change their life or else it snowballs. I see in my husband that in order to start the affair he had to change his beliefs justify his reasons and rather then own them and make changes he chose to keep blaming and believing excuses & now takes no responsibility for anything. The difference I was trying to point out but couldn't figure out how was basically based on our beliefs and standards for ourselves when we do wrong things our choices are
1. Stand up, own it fully as ours, figure it out and basically say wow look I was such an a**hole and I behaved horribly. It's hard to do that. To do so you have to actually love yourself enough to believe you can change that about yourself and be better. And it takes work and effort and constant honesty.
Or
2. Blame others or circumstances. Make excuses and justifications for why you did what you did. Seems easier. Seems kinder to oneself. Except it's not. Because if you choose 2 you'll never really believe in yourself. And nothing will change because you've morphed your personal responsibility into something that always has an out or excuse.

So what I was trying to say is most WS seem to have this anger at judgement and society when what it really is is their own judgement of themselves they can't accept. Because if they truly morally didn't object to what they had done they wouldn't have hid it and therefore it wouldn't have been an affair. They would be in open marriages or unmarried. Rather then face their own judgement and use it to make changes and better themselves some fall Into the easy out of blaming and excuses. And no one can change that except them. And that is why I think the saying once a cheater always a cheater is true in a sense-once they adopt the cheater mindset of avoiding responsibility they will stay that way and yes cheat again until or unless they choose to change themselves and have the personal integrity to no longer allow that mindset of avoiding responsibility or lowering their own standards to meet their mistakes.

I see it this way a healthy person makes plenty of mistakes but they don't lower their standards to make the mistakes excusable. They hold themselves to constantly reaching those standards. So when I said parts of me wanted a revenge affair, I did. And my husband surely didn't deserve my loyalty at that point. But I did. And I refused to be disloyal to my own values and core parts of me. Marriage has ups and downs and if your loyalty or fidelity is ever linked to the standards you hold your spouse to-you'll struggle to stay faithful. It's why I say comparisons are pointless. It's not about the BS vs the AP. It's about the WS and what they we're lacking. Our spouses will always be Imperfect or displeasing at times and by that everyone always would have an excuse to cheat. Your loyalty & faithfulness needs to be linked to who you are and your own standards.

And if your spouses loyalty isn't that way you can't control that. Nothing you could do would prevent them Cheating. Not being thinner, younger, nicer, sexier, richer etc. It's them. Inside them and only they can chose to hold themselves to standards. And if they don't and have no desire to then do really want someone like that as a life partner? No one has to rush divorce. You can wait and see if they choose to be a better person for themselves but while your waiting tend your own gardens and make your life what you want it to be and be the best person you can be for YOU because you can't make them have standards for themselves.

If your signing them up for therapy, or buying them books or begging and pleading for rebuilding trust and accountability-your trying to make them have standards. And it doesn't work. Trust me. Been there done that. Wish I hadn't wasted the time. And if you remove yourself enough from the fear of loss you'll probably realize you don't WANT anyone you have to make have standards.
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