violet


I just really need advise: very quick background: We lost everything almost 3yrs ago due to a catastrophe left us in deep debt, My H told me of a 1 shot illegal deal that was offered by a friend, I stupidly agreed out of desperation. The 1 time became 3 times and I noticed the change drastically- later on found out there was a girl and worst part she put my H in the business- her uncle was the drug lord. I sought help from his parents and he stopped selling, got mad and blamed me for the damage of his good image from his family and cutting him off this girl. He immediately stopped selling but it took us a year to pay off. During that time the fog peaked and they had this “you and me against the world” “I owe you” thing going on. Everything you said the begging, crying, pleading didn’t work- He degraded me and said a lot of hurtful stuff like she loves me more than you etc…. The baffling thing is during all this time he vacillated weekly. He would always ask for intimacy, I knew he was trying deep inside- because despite of what he felt for her he would always try  to reach out to me. I don’t know if she is blackmailing him or he is so in love but If your madly in love- I believe you would never cheat, lie and try to fix things with your wife.

His vacillation used to be weekly, I put a boundary on sex and he would hound me relentlessly- Be the good person I would want to fight for and then when were intimate a few days after he goes withdrawal and starts texting. 
Fast forward starting this year I started to withdraw he has been consistently positive with kids, parents, work, finances, staying at home, and tapered down the drinking, he is focusing on sports and busying himself w anything.. He did this one step at a time- like he would focus on one aspect per week/month. Now I can see he is working on us but he’s still not transparent, I know their on and off-he does not acknowledge her-  He has amnesia now on all the hurtful things he said. I am doing 180 but it doesnt work bec. he is kind and reaches out, communicates first-what do I do with that-I am starting to give up and am vacillating and now when I see him not being transparent I just push him away telling him he should be man enough and just go to OW(hes like I dont have plans,thats just too far etc), file for Annulment, stay in the other room- still he comes back to our bed-If I said this before he would definitely leave. I am the one fighting,hurting him but the next day its like nothing happened, he reaches out still... all of these outbursts are making him run to her more in secret.
I hate myself for doing this. But I cant understand he is starting to talk about us and our future yet he wont let her go. I’ve been working on myself and am confused between feeling something and falling out of love.I am trying to save a marriage and a family for my 3 kids. We have definitely connected 2 weeks ago and I know what we can be, but he won’t stop- I know he hardly sees her now, maybe he is letting her go slowly- He already told me that I like that you are strong with values and morals and you fought hard for me and the kids, Thank you for not leaving us. 

Question: 1. Can a person high on the Fog be like this (kind,nice,reaching out)- he was the opposite last year? He is vacillating by hours now... sometimes distant,moody,evasive then kind nice playful etc-what is this?
2. Kal you posted somewhere that you pushed the OW passive aggressively to end the A. Do you think my H is weaning her off the feeling, feels sorry for her, or he is being blackmailed "you owe me" bec. of the business and maybe threatening? or
Maybe he is so in love but treats us nicely now, focusing on our kids, and other aspects of his life,even told me "Im trying to change but I cant change overnight","one day you will open your eyes and I will be the first thing you see and when you close them I will be the last you see". Im sorry but before it was obvious he was high on the fog but this is confusing?
4. When he goes back to affair will the fog peak again at 100% or is it lesser and shorter? Their in and out of the affair.

Im trying with my boundaries, although he still asks for sex but does not hound me as much, he said he wants but he sees me not wanting it- maybe he is starting to respect me? What he does now is just to reach out for any form of skin contact...
Also I have withdrawn and I know he sees the difference, I see him fearing loosing us now than before because he does not wait for days or weeks, he just reaches out the next day and still starts communication. 
Please tell me there is an end. This is better though than last year but anyone you know who's been in this roller coaster ride. Any help will do.

Thank you so much.



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Heidi
Hi violet, and welcome. Your story is definitely a humdinger, and you must have been through so much, I can't even imagine what a toll it's taken on you. While I can't answer all your questions, I can tell you that it's almost impossible to work on your relationship while the other woman is still in the picture. Until he decides what he wants, it's up to you whether you want to still live like this or if you want to make changes. At the moment it sounds as though he's giving you just enough hope to hang in there, while still doing exactly what he wants.

The illegal stuff adds in a whole new dimension to things. Could the OW be holding it over his head? Even if she's not now, he may be extremely worried about what she may do with this information if he ended it.

One thing I've learned is that men in the fog don't act, they react. I know my WH thought he could control everything, keep everybody happy, minimise the fall out, but what he was really doing was protecting himself. Your WH may be trying to do the same.

You've been living with this situation for a long time. How much longer do you think you can live like this? No judgement, just trying to work out what it is that YOU want.

Keep talking to us!
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Anna26
I'd agree with Heidi here, (seems like I always agree with Heidi - lol), there is so much going on that you can't get a clear picture of anything. 

It seems very much as if he is just flip flopping between the two of you and you need to try and take yourself out of the equation more.  You've already been doing this by setting him boundaries, but the minute he starts being nice and attentive and appears to be wanting to work on your marriage you let go of them. 
It's all very confusing for you and also difficult to stick to your boundaries with determination because when he is being kind and considerate it makes you want to respond in the same way.  But if you don't stay strong with what you need him to do, then I think he will just take advantage of it maybe?
 I think you need to know if this woman is trying to blackmail him and if he is definitely still seeing her.  I think you need to know just what you are dealing with.  There is no way I would have been working on our marriage, or granting my H ANY kind of favours, while the AP was still in the picture.  If she is blackmailing him, at least you could have worked out a way of dealing with this together couldn't you.

I do feel for you, it's a heck of a messy situation to be in..stay strong
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violet
Hi, Thank you for your support. The changes he has made gradually are really amazing especially for my kids.(the reason I am still fighting). I actually have withdrawn a lot and he knows it.The no sex boundary is in place and I have definitely stuck by it. But he tries every other night (he can get it from her-shes very young, new and available but he chooses me-even when he knows I push him away).. I am not as crazy about his Mr. nice guy anymore because I know what happens next (but Mr. nice guy is getting consistently nice and patient everyday)- Im just too tired of being mean and angry and demanding, tried that before it pushes him so far away and we go 3 steps forward 2 steps back and the sad thing he always reaches out first- I have pushed him to this girl so many times bec. im just too tired but he still reaches out. (so confusing)...
I am definitely focusing on me now. I see he is building something around me- the changes are what I have been asking for before A and he is giving it now w/o me asking.

This OW is manipulative, she came here shouting outside our gate bec. I called one time shouting at her on the phone.My H did not let her inside our house-what an insult! But for her to come here means she definitely has a hold over my H. She has also asked my H not to attend some of my Childrens school affairs and he missed 3, but my H has put his feet down and there's nothing she can do. Im sure that she is seeing the changes and she is not liking it, the more my H and I connect the more easier it is for him to withdraw from her, the more she adds pressure (I noticed that the frequency of going in and out of the A has increased) He has put focus on my kids and the way my kids seem to be helping by being so needy towards him is helping a lot. Its funny how I see now the guilt and fear in his face when he looks at me. He is taking back almost all the hurtful things he said as if he is in amnesia. He obviously needs attention and is starting to be needy towards me for even the little things....He used to be the opposite "like this is my life your not part of it"..
I think in a way he "owes her and ahe really could be blackmailing","is protecting us bec. the other woman could have threatened something(she opened an fb account in another name and invited my family and friends-even me), "he could also feel sorry for her bec. of some promises that he had no intention to keep and now shes used", plus "she understands bec. they've done this together".
I have decided to just be careful with my mouth bec. he might be really tied and me insulting and pushing him away could be making it more torture even if he deserves it.. He could be letting her go slowly- who knows. I cannot do some research on this woman bec. shes not from here and it's kinda dangerous. One thing I know, he has never let go of me- he could just go to her.. I even asked my H-if you love her why cheat and lie to her w me? Why have no plans of the future w her, You don't have chains- file and I'll sign he said NO and I believe him- He could have left at the peak of the fog and never did. He used to go out a lot 3-6 x a night and come home at midnight.Now his home at 7 the most but not always bec. he is mostly here. (I dont call and tx anymore)... so I think shes just getting tx msgs now and if they meet then she has to adjust and meet in the morning. Im sure shes pissed.
In a way I am being the best me and show him what hes going to lose. I am increasing my boundary little by little but when he asks to spend time w me like go out- I make sure he sees the happy me, the one that can live without him. told him if I lose him I know I will have no regrets bec. I tried my best. He owes me and he knows it. As for this OW- I dont know what she gets out from this and why she just has the lowest respect and self esteem, she has her own live in partner and if its not working w him shes still too young to find someone who will love her and just her. Funny thing is she posted her choice of books on FB and its all about saving a marriage!!! Wow!

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Heidi
Hi Violet, you seem to have the patience of a saint. I honestly can't imagine how hard this is for you. Very gently, I'm going to try to tell you that of course he's not going to file for divorce while he can have his cake and eat it. He had the best of both worlds, the comfort of home and the excitement of an affair. I'm pretty sure a lot of our WHs would have loved to continue with that had we agreed to it. But right now he's the only one in this triangle who is getting what he wants.

Could it be that he's being nicer to you because you are effectively condoning this lifestyle? How great for him that he doesn't even have to defend himself any more. I think I'd be happy too.

I find it hard to see how he will remove himself from his AP without being asked to make a choice. Right now all three of you are effectively saying this is okay. It doesn't seem as though he's willing to stop, and she's not leaving the relationship, so the question is what are you willing to do.

What are you getting out of this? Are you willing to continue with this indefinitely? I can't help but wonder if there's a danger of this becoming a long term thing, because he's pretty much got everything he wants right now.

Such a difficult situation, and my heart really goes out to you.

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Anna26
Heidi wrote:
Hi Violet, you seem to have the patience of a saint. I honestly can't imagine how hard this is for you. Very gently, I'm going to try to tell you that of course he's not going to file for divorce while he can have his cake and eat it. He had the best of both worlds, the comfort of home and the excitement of an affair. I'm pretty sure a lot of our WHs would have loved to continue with that had we agreed to it. But right now he's the only one in this triangle who is getting what he wants. Could it be that he's being nicer to you because you are effectively condoning this lifestyle? How great for him that he doesn't even have to defend himself any more. I think I'd be happy too. I find it hard to see how he will remove himself from his AP without being asked to make a choice. Right now all three of you are effectively saying this is okay. It doesn't seem as though he's willing to stop, and she's not leaving the relationship, so the question is what are you willing to do. What are you getting out of this? Are you willing to continue with this indefinitely? I can't help but wonder if there's a danger of this becoming a long term thing, because he's pretty much got everything he wants right now. Such a difficult situation, and my heart really goes out to you.



Nicely put Heidi.

It's true Violet that while your husband isn't hearing what you are not happy, with he will probably assume that it doesn't really bother you.

In my own marriage, my husband was still seeing the AP too, in spite of me knowing, and him knowing I knew!  I wasn't prepared to tolerate this and in the end I had to ask him to either leave or stop seeing her.  He left, and to be truthful it WAS partly for his own reasons too, he was supposed to be trying to make a clear decision about what he wanted to do.

But they can only really do that if they go no contact completely and to be honest, I don't think he did that properly.  He still lives elsewhere and I still stick to my decision, I don't want him to return home until he can say he is single minded in his decision to return and prepared to work on things properly.

You need to be VERY clear with your boundaries, and you are perfectly within your rights to say that you want nothing to do with him or your marriage, while he is still seeing her. 
Maybe he is letting her down gently, but if he doesn't make it clear that he wants nothing further to do with her (IF that's the case) then she will be forever believing he is worth persuing.  If you're not getting through to him, maybe it's time to get yourself out of the triangle.  
If she does have some kind of hold over him, then you need to know that too, so you can make a well informed decision on what you want at least.  And maybe get yourselves some help if necessary.

Like Heidi says, he does have everything he needs right now, and I suspect that he rather likes it like that, or he is still in  the fog to a certain extent.
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UrbanExplorer
The WS and the AP seem to have many dysfunctional and needy aspects to their personalities. Particularly, you have put basic boundaries in place, but your WS does not respect them (bothers you for sex all the time). Is your WS willing to do any therapy to get clear on these relationship patterns?
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violet
Thank you guys for the support. This affair was prolonged for a yr. because of the balance debt in the Business . My H has tried so many times to break it off but OW would find a way.(according to his bestfriend)..During this time I did all the wrong stuff the begging, pleading etc...Its a different story now, I have withdrawn physically from him but I just don't see the point in being mean and revengeful anymore- nobody wins in that game, I'm too tired of punishing, pointing a finger- he knows what hes doing (even if he keeps this whore a secret) I am not a saint as I too played a part in the destruction of our marriage- he just made the worse decision by running to this solution, something he can't even man up for.

I have vocalized already that if I meet someone who would love, accept me and kids, fight for me then he's toast, Don't get me wrong I did ask him to file and I will sign. But I will consider my children's situation at all times. Control of mind and actions are needed, not my fickle emotions and feelings- A sudden uprooting would tear them apart (whether I like it or not they will be broken but maybe I can do it gently and with validity that there is no hope)- That is my responsibility as a parent, they never asked for this.

For now I need to learn to effectively deal with my husband's arguments (he hardly argues now) and to set firm boundaries. I think Based on his protests and attempts to hide his behavior, maybe our marriage is important to him. But if he continues to destroy our marriage, and himself, it is his responsibility-- not mine.I did try to help but I can't control him-only myself (no regrets since I can say to myself I did my best- no looking back and I can move on- this I did for me) I wouldn't need to get revenge--he would bring it down on his own head. 
For now I am being both tough and loving, I need to be tougher- I could take drastic action or deliberate action. If I suddenly packed my bags, gave him an ultimatum, and filed papers against him, I would bring extreme pressure, I would feel powerful and that would be within my rights.  But, that would be a message of toughness without the message of love. It would emotionally satisfy me for a short time, but it could also bring severe conflict, a drastic reaction on my husband's part, and prematurely end the marriage before it had a chance. I am really learning to take control of my life.  And, my happiness will not depend on my husband. Marriage is hard, there will be trials, but that's what its about, its not a bed of roses-we will make mistakes- In the end I want to know I did everything possible. I do prefer my marriage in tact (a good loving marriage), but I prefer no marriage if its a bad one. So If we were going to make it -there has to be some changes- not because I forced him/ultimatum,hes wrong, forgive me, forget and were back and then it resurfaces again after a few years. No. It has to be him fixing him, me fixing me, WE fixing us, protecting us or never mind. As it has took years for the deterioration, it will take years to rebuild. I honestly don't know if we make it, (Kal told me his remorse could be in the form of the positive changes getting consistent)I dont believe my H is the best actor in the world as he is so in love w OW, (but is so good w my kids now, is #1 at work, spending his finances on us, spends time w parents daily, stopped drinking and going out a night, changed some of his bad traits, reaches out kind, nice, starts convo's with me always etc.- this was the opposite at the height of the fog) I believe him when he said "I am changing (my choice) but you cant change me overnight."
I don't know about the trust, if my love for him will ever come back 100%. One thing I know there is an end to all of this. I think the cheater will carry the bulk of regret, guilt and shame in the end. I just pray so hard that it will end soon (any which way is best for me and my kids)...Any continued support would mean so much. Thank you.
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violet
Hi Urban Explorer, What stopped my husband from doing the blame shifting is when I told him that "I acknowledge my mistakes but this affair is all on you, we had problems and you cowardly run away into a temporary solution you cant even stand for, Now you hurt me so much, so much more than whatever I did to you, question: did you see me cheating and running away? NO, so this is you- the person you are, please don't ever compare me".. He apologized and stopped blaming me.
With regards to the Sex- he stopped hounding but it doesn't mean his not trying, but the NO is in place and he has respected that- and its not just sex I do not touch him too- But he makes sure we have some sort of skin connection. I just don't really understand, I see a lot here where their spouse seem allergic to them (I experienced this before, only diff. he vacillated weekly) Nowadays I am grateful for the consistent changes esp. for my kids and for him as well, If we don't work out I still don't wish him bad as he is the father of my kids and we have history- sad to say I believe there is always KARMA and he will pay.
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