Robin1971
I like most know am just about 4 months out from my hell day. I have no sympathy for him, I don't get it am I the only one dealing with these feelings? Everyone on here seems to be, I won't say begging, but looking for ways to " keep" their partner that cheated. Hear me out. I want my hubby to stay, and he is trying, but I will not beg or anything else. I have been working on US before this day and I will continue to because that is what I set out to do, fix what needed to be fixed. Now he throws this in my lap and now I have to work on me even more and deal with this. If he didn't drop her from day 1 and was washy washy I think he would be gone, I THINK. I say that but I'm not in those shoes. He did. I just don't understand why all the advice asking how to get them to come back or want me again, they should be begging us NO?


Take this post for what it's worth, because these days I don't think straight, I don't feel like I am worth anything, so say what you want to me it couldn't hurt me any worse or make me feel any worse than I feel now, so be honest, don't play Willy Wonka with me, I am a big girl and I can take what anyone throws at me from now on.

I am by no means trying to offend anyone, I'm just not understanding
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TimT
Robin1971. I'm glad you're here. This Community was created for all kinds of hurting people and I hope it will be a place of healing for you.

It's hard to respond adequately because there is so much about you I don't know. I can't look at you when your words come out. You can't see me when I reply. Misunderstanding is a greater possibility than if we were in the same room together.

At four months out, I would still expect tremendous pain and perhaps bouts of rage. But my concern for you is what appears to be a consistency in your response... one that reflects only defensiveness and bitterness. They may be strong enough to keep your husband on the straight and narrow, but they will be ineffective in leading you toward intimate reconnection and trust.

Not that you should be expected to be trusting and intimate with your husband right now, but you have to be willing to move toward that. And the only path to those things will take you through vulnerability. You have to be willing to risk your heart. In my opinion, you should begin practicing that in little ways now because it will take a LOT of time and effort to finally get there.

Being vulnerable is probably the last thing you want to consider right now, but love doesn't change the rules for any of us. You probably need your husband to demonstrate his willingness to risk some of these things first, but you will need to do so as well. And, yes, when you do that you will find yourself feeling things differently. You will even begin to experience a kind of empathy for the one who caused so much damage.

I hope you can find your way there. I hope we can help you get there, as you continue to help us, too.
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Anna26
Robin1971 wrote:


I don't feel like I am worth anything, so say what you want to me it couldn't hurt me any worse or make me feel any worse than I feel now,



I could just about reach out and touch your pain right now...
Oh... you are worth something, of course you are.  You are valued as a mother by your children, by your friends and family and by the members of this community.  Your sense of self worth and esteem are shot to pieces right now,  so it's easy to set up a protection, a defence against anything that could hurt you or your children. And rightly so in many ways.  It's hard to build up that self worth for ourselves again, but if we don't value ourselves, how can we expect anyone else to value us?

I agree with TimT's point about vulnerability, it's risky, but at some point needed.  I suppose we all think a relationship is worth this, right at the beginning, when we fall in love and marry.  Each time we love, we risk something.
As the author CS Lewis said:

" to love at all is to be vulnerable"


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Robin1971
I just wish someone would walk me thru in MORE way for me to feel vulnerable. What are some examples that yall do, because in my mind just getting out of bed in the morning and looking at him I feel it, ha I g him walk out the door to work I feel it, let's not mention when he has to travel overnight ! Every second of the day I feel like I could be attacked again. Never have I felt so scared, so vulnerable. i am so scared it won't get better I am so scared that this is how I have to live. Put a smile on for everyone else to see while in reality I'm dying inside
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Robin1971
Anna26 wrote:
Robin1971 wrote:


I don't feel like I am worth anything, so say what you want to me it couldn't hurt me any worse or make me feel any worse than I feel now,



I could just about reach out and touch your pain right now...
Oh... you are worth something, of course you are.  You are valued as a mother by your children, by your friends and family and by the members of this community.  Your sense of self worth and esteem are shot to pieces right now,  so it's easy to set up a protection, a defence against anything that could hurt you or your children. And rightly so in many ways.  It's hard to build up that self worth for ourselves again, but if we don't value ourselves, how can we expect anyone else to value us?

I agree with TimT's point about vulnerability, it's risky, but at some point needed.  I suppose we all think a relationship is worth this, right at the beginning, when we fall in love and marry.  Each time we love, we risk something.
As the author CS Lewis said:

" to love at all is to be vulnerable"





It just sucks that the man I chose to let my guard down to 22 yrs ago ( 16 married) chose to do this to me
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CrippledLamb
I can't say that I'm the person who you're going to relate to best in your position, but I can certainly tell you I know how you feel. Well before my wife's affair, I set out to do some work on both myself and the marriage.  I identified some of the problems that needed addressing on my own, worked on what I could in myself, and then brought the US problems to my wife. The result was disastrous. For me (over 2 years out), I still am looking at those issues that were a problem before the affair and ask myself how much of the affair was just to divert the attention away from those issues.
As for what seems like everyone trying to "keep" their CS, I can see both sides. There's a lot of control lost, fear gained, and redemption hoped for in most cases. I want to see my hard work pay off. I want to see the mess cleaned up. Looking at it from the side of a parent, you want the person who caused the mess to clean it up, but even if they don't do the work, it's still got to be cleaned up. And you feel more frustrated if you have to clean up someone else's mess.
I hope that makes some sense.
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Anna26
Yes, I know..second time mine has done this, first time after 18 years. Then 10 years later.. No easier, I just know I have the strength to get through and you will find it too. Feelings have a way of 'evolving', of changing when the time is right. TIME. That word again...
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Kalmarjan
Robin1971 wrote:
I like most know am just about 4 months out from my hell day. I have no sympathy for him, I don't get it am I the only one dealing with these feelings? Everyone on here seems to be, I won't say begging, but looking for ways to " keep" their partner that cheated. Hear me out. I want my hubby to stay, and he is trying, but I will not beg or anything else. I have been working on US before this day and I will continue to because that is what I set out to do, fix what needed to be fixed. Now he throws this in my lap and now I have to work on me even more and deal with this. If he didn't drop her from day 1 and was washy washy I think he would be gone, I THINK. I say that but I'm not in those shoes. He did. I just don't understand why all the advice asking how to get them to come back or want me again, they should be begging us NO?


Take this post for what it's worth, because these days I don't think straight, I don't feel like I am worth anything, so say what you want to me it couldn't hurt me any worse or make me feel any worse than I feel now, so be honest, don't play Willy Wonka with me, I am a big girl and I can take what anyone throws at me from now on.

I am by no means trying to offend anyone, I'm just not understanding


I hear you loud and clear, and the pain you are going through. It is still early for all of this. 4 months is not a lot of time to process.

I don't think anyone should beg for the relationship. Not the BS, and not the WS. In the end, the two of you will have to want it to work, period.

I personally disagree with any stance that anyone needs to grovel, beg, plead for forgiveness. I refuse to think it's good to give yourself up in order to be in a relationship, especially if that is what brought you to door #1 and door #2.

Okay,so that's out of the way, now to clarify what I think the advice is trying to tell you. TimT does it so much more elegantly than I.

It's about making yourself available . Right now you are rightly pissed at what has happened. If you weren't, I'd be worried. But you are also letting that close the door to your availability (and intimacy).

It's not about blame, but about telling it how it is. Like Tim said, I don't know you, I can only read through your words here and try to guess the intent of what you are writing.

It's been a year and a half since D-day for us. It seems like things are easy for us, but they are not. It still stings and we still trip up over this affair. Sometimes it's like downright walking on eggshells, but at least this time it's all with the truth.

The one "good" thing to come of this is that we are both not afraid to lose each other. That already happened, so we can be more honest with each other. Sometimes brutally honest.

Last weekend I went on a camping trip with my wife and she shared with me when we were alone how she felt through the year that I was gone. She also told me to shut up when I started to get defensive. Shut up and listen. And, I did. I listened to understand.

At the beginning, the first couple of months? She wouldn't even be in the same room as me when I came to pick up my son. There was no talking, save through sporadic texts and mediation.

That was through shame on my part and a huge amount of anger on her part. But, she did beg me to come back, and I will tell you that when she did it had the opposite effect.

The stupid thing is I didn't feel safe enough to come back in the beginning. Honestly, it's like when you are a kid and know you've messed up, and are afraid to face the music, the repercussions of what you did. The consequences.

Time will help here. It took me a year and a bit to come back. That's the truth
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Intuition77
Well like everyone else said I don't know enough about you your story to really offer concrete advice. But I can say no your not alone cause I had apparently MUCH more anger then others I've read. And while I did almost beg i guess in that I was pleading to understand and crying in the immediate aftermath and I was trying harder then he was to save it. I don't think that's good. And honestly I wish id handled things so much different.

I think you have. Aright to be angry obviously. I don't know exactly what your WS is doing/not doing to fix the marriage. I can say for me my anger came out in absolute rage and I hated it. BecUse it wasn't me. And eventually for me I had to deal with my anger and rage that he wasn't who I thought he was and maybe could never be and the best thing for me was let the marriage go. My needs in a marriage we're not close to being met and he wasn't making the effort (he did not dump her day one and grovel back) so I had to accept my anger and rage was also this not being the life I wanted. And I wanted that life with him. But if he couldn't or wouldn't give it to me or meet my needs in a marriage then what good was being angry about it? Our situations are completely different though.

And to give some perspective of why you feel your response is different from so many others very few affairs (from what I've seen and read) end the way your WS did-over immediately and wanting the marriage. In those cases I can see the BS holding on to the anger part maybe because the desperate feeling didn't knock them down as much as seeing the WS continue to cheat, choose the AP, continue to lie etc. I think those things do affect the BS and (weird because it sounds like it would be opposite) but make them almost more desperate to save the marriage. The rejection does a number on self esteem. Not that you or anyone whose been betrayed doesn't feel rejected but a sick cat and mouse game almost occurs with a wS who continues to lie or cheat or leaves-their indifference creates more desperation in the BS and it spirals out of control.
So I think maybe in situations like yours the wS immediate decision to end the affair and work at the marriage allows the BS to stay in the anger more. On the upside that situation I think has so much going for it. If your WS immediately ended the affair and wanted to work at the marriage I think there's a good chance you can get through it. I don't know from your post if your wS is doing the work and putting in the effort to make actual change. But just an idea on why anger was your main reaction.

I think anger is ok and justified. The only kind if anger I think is damaging is if your punishing him with anger or using it to hurt him like he hurt you. And that's because it's not healthy for you to stay stuck there.
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Tim2014
Yes you are so correct in what you are saying it seems like desperation but sit back when you can think rationally then the chose becomes instead of anger do I really want to be with this stranger anymore!!! We the bs have excepted their flaws but clearly we haven't been excepted for our flaws
Then it's expected of us to repair the damage what a bitter pill to swallow and we have to say to ourselves our marriage and life with this person will never be the same!! Never ever my wS has said I want the old tim back
But he doesn't exist anymore he died on dday he died the day the storm hit the beach he was a casualty the wS forget they didn't like thear person so now you try and rebuild what was destroyed by collateral damage but it's with a different person whose soul has been altered forever the book has been rewritten by all because you're no longer the sample in that's persom eyes all you see is the worm to rebuild a marriage will take longer than it took to create that marriage the first time lets we forget you say treating your spouse with anger yes it isn't healthy but sticking a knife in our hearts is? People grieve differently and they need to complete the grieving process to move on
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TimT
Intuition77 wrote:
...I think anger is ok and justified. The only kind if anger I think is damaging is if your punishing him with anger or using it to hurt him like he hurt you. And that's because it's not healthy for you to stay stuck there.

I may try to write more about this soon, but I do agree that anger is an necessary emotion. And when we feel vulnerable and at risk, it can help keep us safe. But, as has already been said in various posts by others, healing relationally eventually requires vulnerability, not safety. Eventually. You don't have to be there now, you just need to know it's good to end up in that place.

It helps by starting to learn how to focus on the deeper issues that cause us to be angry and think or talk about those things. When I realize that I'm angry because I feel afraid, or hurt, or shamed, or powerless to get what I want/need... dealing with THAT issue helps take the focus off feelings of anger.
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Intuition77
TimT wrote:
Intuition77 wrote:
...I think anger is ok and justified. The only kind if anger I think is damaging is if your punishing him with anger or using it to hurt him like he hurt you. And that's because it's not healthy for you to stay stuck there.

I may try to write more about this soon, but I do agree that anger is an necessary emotion. And when we feel vulnerable and at risk, it can help keep us safe. But, as has already been said in various posts by others, healing relationally eventually requires vulnerability, not safety. Eventually. You don't have to be there now, you just need to know it's good to end up in that place.

It helps by starting to learn how to focus on the deeper issues that cause us to be angry and think or talk about those things. When I realize that I'm angry because I feel afraid, or hurt, or shamed, or powerless to get what I want/need... dealing with THAT issue helps take the focus off feelings of anger.



True. You said it better then I, to me healing anger is expressing it in a healthy way which like you just described is getting to the bottom of it. I also think when the WS shows empathy or compassion and the safety is there it's much easier to let the anger go. I agree relationships require vulnerability but no one can be vulnerable when they feel frantically unsafe. I think a lot of BS anger is there because what they need to feel safely vulnerable isn't happening. When we start dating we're vulnerable in small bits as we get to know someone but if that person showed massive disrespect and caused us hurt and feeling u safe we would not continue. So I think the wS really has to make the marriage a safe place to be first before a BS can get to that place. Maybe wS think that is unfair but it is the consequences of the damage they caused. A marriage takes two but a WS expecting their spouse to take one for the team and just walk Into a known lions den without establishing safety first is to me just more entitlement. And selfish.

That's why I said punishing them with anger or using it to hurt them hurts the BS themselves. It's not good for the marriage either but if the WS isn't making the marriage a safe place the BS first priority needs to be simply being the best them
For themselves. If they're not making it safe then I really feel a BS needs to hold back their vulnerability as it can damage them and the marriage further to be free with it and have it disrespected more. My opinion anyway.
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Intuition77
Tim wrote:
Yes you are so correct in what you are saying it seems like desperation but sit back when you can think rationally then the chose becomes instead of anger do I really want to be with this stranger anymore!!! We the bs have excepted their flaws but clearly we haven't been excepted for our flaws
Then it's expected of us to repair the damage what a bitter pill to swallow and we have to say to ourselves our marriage and life with this person will never be the same!! Never ever my wS has said I want the old tim back
But he doesn't exist anymore he died on dday he died the day the storm hit the beach he was a casualty the wS forget they didn't like thear person so now you try and rebuild what was destroyed by collateral damage but it's with a different person whose soul has been altered forever the book has been rewritten by all because you're no longer the sample in that's persom eyes all you see is the worm to rebuild a marriage will take longer than it took to create that marriage the first time lets we forget you say treating your spouse with anger yes it isn't healthy but sticking a knife in our hearts is? People grieve differently and they need to complete the grieving process to move on



I'm not really sure where your going with this? You seem to take offense to my post but I'm not sure why. I was trying to express to the OP she's not alone in her anger and that different situations trigger different responses in people. I said I do understand the anger and see it as justified but as someone who has learned and been through it and my marriage is ending, the anger expressed in hurtful ways or to punish isn't healthy for YOU. it's not (I'm assuming) who you are, who you want to be. And when our rage and anger at them takes over and I get that and it's hard to fight and your right it feels like they deserve it. I'm saying they may but operate anyway under what's best for you. It's the best way to heal you. With or without your spouse. It's an easier way to see your behavior as something you can control (because you can) you can't control them or their choices but taking control of yourself and being who you want to be gives you back immense power and strength.
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